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Colour Me Red - HB Mix
#11
What do you use ?
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#12
(01-11-2016, 12:47 AM)takka360 Wrote: What do you use ?

For monitoring? I have a pair of Focal CMS40s for near-field, mounted on a set of Iso Acoustic stands plus a pair of Sen HD600 headphones.
Be fierce in your encouragement, kind in your criticism and try and remember that the art of a good critique is not to make someone else's mix sound like yours...but to help the mixer realize their own vision.

https://soundcloud.com/hbguitar
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#13
expanding on takka's obs.....you've gone for a LCR mix primarily which is tending to skew your stereo image spectrally? for example, the acoustic guitar has a lot of treble in the R channel and it's not balanced in the L by anything equivalent. on the cans we'll find it fatiguing. i concur with Alan's point about the snare too....i've not worked this proj so can't/won't offer suggestions, but it's a problem in that it lacks punch from it's fundamental, unless it's being masked - only gave a quick listen, but it's also pretty sizzly (too much bottom snare?) and is missing definition perhaps because of this.

for me, i'm finding an issue with perspective of the sound stage. much of what's throwing me (apart from the LCR approach which is humanly unnatural to our senses) is the disparity in spatial cues between the instruments and especially the LV here, which i'm finding ambiguous? maybe flick between your reverb sends between on and off; if you hear significant contrast and obvious ambiance for example, then it's a sign the ears liked it too much when adjusting the parameters at the time of mixing - it only takes mere seconds for the brain to like treble....and the ear candy from the verbs, then you're hooked. technically we shouldn't 'knowingly' hear reverb, directly speaking that is (unless it's a creative/genre based theme).

our ears can all too quickly become desensitised to treble. stick a pair of industrial ear plugs in for an hour, then pull them out - you will suddenly be more acutely aware of treble than if you hadn't worn them.....but in about a couple of minutes everything is back to normal and the brain adjusts to the 'new' environment. we need to find coping mechanisms to prevent this human trait from getting in the way of the mixing process, even if it's only for a short period, like half an hour...or even as little as a minute! interestingly, this forum is a big problem in the respect that many mixes suffer excess treble (and harshness, the latter from overly hot mixes and clipping - which yours isn't, i hasten to add!) no doubt primarily for this reason....however when auditioning mixes, if we go from an overly bright mix to one that is perfectly balanced timbrally just moments later, it will nevertheless sound "not bright enough". ahhhh, the joys of psychoacoustics, eh? this is where having a [qualified] reference track sitting in the proj can help, now and again...or flicking between different speakers (notebook, smartphone, crappy PC speakers, expensive full range boxes, the mother-in-laws ears), taking the dog out, making a coffee (the grinder helps adjust my perspectives! lol) blah blah. but this takes discipline too.

and most important of all? loudness affects perception. if i listen at a different level to you, i will be hearing a different version of the mix even in the same room, same gear.....and i'm not, of course Big Grin Hello Fletcher-Munson!

might mix this now, you've got me interested!

laters.. Wink
Beware...........Cognitive Dissonance!
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#14
Hey Dave, Thanks for stopping by.

Its funny, i was trying to finalize the vocal for a possible ver 1.2 and I was thinking to myself " if i had to start this mix again, i would do it differently......cos I'm playing with fader levels when i should be probably be moving pan pots"

Then i had another thought along the lines of " but i've come this far....I'm so close to finishing...do i really want to chuck it all in the bin?"

Then i read your post....and i'm thinking " yup...i probably do" Big Grin

regarding LCR ....there was no intention to build LCR and there is plenty panned left middle and right middle. I tend to follow a basic sound stage design of brighter panned wider and as Dave Pensado once said "keep the mud in the middle". That said...if it aint working.....it aint working

Re Fx, I think i was luxuriating in a warm bath of reverb......and probably why i wanted to fiddle with pan pots so much. Once alerted to the problem, just muting the FX bus brought all the instrumentation back into focus and gave separation (although a bit dry).

So i'm thinking time for v2.0
Be fierce in your encouragement, kind in your criticism and try and remember that the art of a good critique is not to make someone else's mix sound like yours...but to help the mixer realize their own vision.

https://soundcloud.com/hbguitar
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#15
(02-11-2016, 01:05 AM)HbGuitar Wrote: Hey Dave, Thanks for stopping by.

Its funny, i was trying to finalize the vocal for a possible ver 1.2 and I was thinking to myself " if i had to start this mix again, i would do it differently......cos I'm playing with fader levels when i should be probably be moving pan pots"

Then i had another thought along the lines of " but i've come this far....I'm so close to finishing...do i really want to chuck it all in the bin?"

Then i read your post....and i'm thinking " yup...i probably do" Big Grin

i pulled it down yesterday and took a peep.....just some thoughts herein: take what works, ignore what you know, and laugh at the obvious.


i'd recommend starting a rough mix in mono....it will force some major EQ decisions and result in clarity and separation - which might then suggest some compression strategies in order to address some balance stability issues. compression will bring things forward but you might not want that. mono will help you make more informed decisions. by mono, i mean all instruments down the middle, then switch off one speaker. try a quick experiment with this on the rhodes vs lead guitar. panning out of masking issues doesn't work outside of the sweet spot or in a downmix situation like your supermarket PA...or in the mother-in-laws where the speakers are most likely separated by...nothing, lol. And a room will average the sound too.

Quote:regarding LCR ....there was no intention to build LCR and there is plenty panned left middle and right middle. I tend to follow a basic sound stage design of brighter panned wider and as Dave Pensado once said "keep the mud in the middle". That said...if it aint working.....it aint working

HF material panned wide needs equal spectral balance, especially if the track in question is running for a time, because of the risk of fatigue. headphone users can suffer otherwise. this same problem can also occur with LM stuff too, of course. having had a quick look at the multi, we have 2 acoustic tracks no doubt to help overcome potential issues. however, this brings other probs too.....double the spectral material in mono and masking. there might be times in the vision where they work well when panned fully wide in LR (when summed to mono, they will drop 3dB because of the laws of science), but you might decide that you only want one of them participating? bringing it somewhere closer towards the center, but allowing for Haas, and work it's treble to suit it's depth placement illusion, and fatigue can be avoided. hihats can be challenging for this reason too. each case needs to be assessed on it's own individual merits, which is why sweeping generalisations are just that, sweeping generalisations, but principles are important indeed.


Quote:Re Fx, I think i was luxuriating in a warm bath of reverb......and probably why i wanted to fiddle with pan pots so much. Once alerted to the problem, just muting the FX bus brought all the instrumentation back into focus and gave separation (although a bit dry).

cool. i mentioned the lead guitar vs rhodes? how about listening to these two instruments dry.... the lead naturally wants to sit further back in the mix cf the rhodes? perhaps use these two instruments as a placement exercise and explore things like EQ, compression, different parameter settings on different emu's (direct sound vs early reflections, vs late reflections) and see what combination of factors help create the illusion you seek in your vision, and which destroys it? loop for about 15 seconds, then mute your FX, repeat. 15 seconds is about long enough for your ears to begin to get comfortable, and that's the time to unsettle them with muting! it should help assessment as you run through different scenarios. i recommend pausing the DAW while you dial in parameter changes.....it will force you to imagine the sound you want and on resuming play again it will confirm if you've got there or not. i try to dial in EQ or compression these days WITHOUT listening. it's hell to begin with, but over time it really smarts up the critical listening skills.

by the way, i now understand the problem with the snare Confused


Quote:So i'm thinking time for v2.0

that's the spirit!


a word of caution, or bad news depending on your perspective: there's printed automation in the multi. left unattended it will interfere with your processing all the way through the DAW.





.
Beware...........Cognitive Dissonance!
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#16
New version, 2.0. Virtually a brand new mix. Kept some elements but pretty much major surgery;

1. new drum balance
2. new instrument balance
3. new fx balance
4. plus minor tweaks to lvox/bgv balance

still not sure if I'm 100% happy....but figured I'd put something up for a few days and see if I get any more inspriration


.mp3    Colour Me Red_HB Mix 2.0.mp3 --  (Download: 7.63 MB)


Be fierce in your encouragement, kind in your criticism and try and remember that the art of a good critique is not to make someone else's mix sound like yours...but to help the mixer realize their own vision.

https://soundcloud.com/hbguitar
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#17
Nice controlled mix - no obvious technical problems - nice one! My observation is that the music and vocal could all come up a bit - the drums are obviously wider, fresher and louder than the musical content. I wonder if a little (more?) master bus 'tape' and compression might help glue the whole thing together a little more too. Great mix - very accomplished skills.
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#18
(03-11-2016, 11:48 AM)joelonsdale Wrote: Nice controlled mix - no obvious technical problems - nice one! My observation is that the music and vocal could all come up a bit - the drums are obviously wider, fresher and louder than the musical content. I wonder if a little (more?) master bus 'tape' and compression might help glue the whole thing together a little more too. Great mix - very accomplished skills.

Hey Joe, thanks for the input. I'm glad u liked the mix. I was beginning to doubt my own judgement on this one....too long in the trenches so to speak. Hopefully just a few tweaks needed to bring this one home.
Be fierce in your encouragement, kind in your criticism and try and remember that the art of a good critique is not to make someone else's mix sound like yours...but to help the mixer realize their own vision.

https://soundcloud.com/hbguitar
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#19
(03-11-2016, 09:00 AM)HbGuitar Wrote: New version, 2.0. Virtually a brand new mix. Kept some elements but pretty much major surgery;

1. new drum balance
2. new instrument balance
3. new fx balance
4. plus minor tweaks to lvox/bgv balance

still not sure if I'm 100% happy....but figured I'd put something up for a few days and see if I get any more inspriration

Hey, this 2.0 is great work.. are you using a master buss compressor on your mix buss? From what I hear on this 2.0 a MBC hitting light at a 2 ratio would glue this together maybe giving you what your mind knows is here.. also, have you considered using Waves NLS for color? That also can give you some interesting color to consider, but to my ears, the "fader" positions are all cool, from here I would only say perhaps what your ears are looking for is the sound "color".. ultimately for me, if I received this as a mix for a mastering session, I could work with it all the way!
M1 Pro MBP: is my Hattori Hanzo.
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#20
One minor thing that jumps out at me is the snare hits are inconsistent. I don't know if there's a gate or expander happening or what but there are times when the snare has hard, cracking hits and other times when it drops out.
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