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ThePhonk's mix
#1
Now,

that is a song that pushes my buttons! Disregarding more urgent obligations, lots of unfinished homework on other mixes and my habit of deliberating for months about everything, I simply had to put my hands on this right away and mix it into something recognizable! How lucky I am to share a planet with all these people...

Then again, isn't mixing this song merely an exercise in not screwing up? Connecting the dots? Colors by number? How many different visions can one have for it...?

Let's see... here comes my rather quick first take of it. There are some things that I'd like to refine. Maneuver the drums deeper into the sloppy corner, yet give them more impact (no idea how). Even out the bass. Slightly polish the guitars, remove the grumble in the third and fourth guitar... and take the guitar solo serious Tongue Find a decent ending. Listen to the mix on more than one reproduction system Blush All in all I am quite happy though. I wanted to maintain the dynamics and foster both immediacy and momentum, yet make it a balanced listen. With the exception of the guitar solo, I think I did that. But again, how can one not?

When I compare my mix to APZX's, I find mine edgier in some regards -- which is what I wanted, but I'm not sure about my frequency balance. I also missed some juicy details because I dismissed some vocal tracks too hastily -- that is embarrassing. I did not bother as much much with the kick, but worked brutally on the snare to dampen the ring and make it more cardboardish, if that makes any sense to you. I share APZX's preferences regarding the guitar mics, but simply pulled the M81s back a few dB and kept them in the mix to spice up the AK-47s.

I have the habit to import other people's mixes into my DAW for A/B comparisons. That is easier when the mixes start at the same offset as the multitracks. With that in mind, I left most of the count-in in the mix (similar to APZX), but silenced the first four beats or so.

Any comments are of course appreciated!

Regards

Marc

EDIT: Find more mixes below.


.mp3    Human-Radio_You-And-Me-And-The-Radio_ThePhonk_V002.mp3 --  (Download: 9.14 MB)


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#2
Hmmmmm, the only way I can describe what I'm hearing is a total lack of low mid range. It is there, but to the ear it is mainly focused around 3-6KHz. but is lacking in giving the low end more harmonics, it really sounds like there is a big lack of anything under 80Hz. In general the mix sounds "boxy" and "tinny" to my ears. Really it seems like everything was run through a High Pass filter and ultimately took away from making it sound "full".

Now, that with the being said I really like the boxy room sound of the drums quite a bit. Though I do wish the kick had some more weight and the same with the snare. I like the overall definition of the toms and the cymbals though. The only issue I had with the guitars was the solo. The last guitar is just so darn resonant and peaky that it eats straight through your ear. Though I will admit I did like the use of the M80 mic for it. Sounded pretty good that way.

Overall, the mix has a good balance just lacking in that full range sound. Give some more low end to your elements for some more overall oomph.
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#3
Thanks, APZX,

I think I see what you mean! I had a rude awakening when I finally played my mix through the PC speakers. And I see now why I had lost sonic perspective and what damage I did when I 'finished' it.

This version should address the problem and was sweetened in some other ways, without giving up too much of its edge. And this time I played it through the PC speakers before I uploaded it!

I may have overcompensated a bit... :-)


.mp3    Human-Radio_You-And-Me-And-The-Radio_ThePhonk_V003.mp3 --  (Download: 9.12 MB)


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#4
This sounds a lot better.
To mix or not to mix ... mix!
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#5
Definitely filled in some of the holes in the low end. But in doing so you created other problems. The problem is when you're looking for information in the lower mids (I'm talking about 150 - 400Hz). The guitars really don't go down there much nor do the vocals. Instead, what you've got is everything sitting up really high coming mainly out of the tweeters. This forces a lot of sonic information into very little space really. To me in that lower frequency area you're letting the bass do all the work and as a result it actually sounds kind of boomy. Essentially, what I'm saying is give those guitars some more darn weight in the mix and suppress the bass a little bit. The bass should really give you a feeling of weight. Cement the mix as it were. Though when the piano comes in it does fill in the area pretty well, but that is only during the chorus. I have some other gripes with the mix, but I don't want to spoil everything.

Now, I understand you're going for an edgier mix. To my ears with this mix you're really trying to work those higher harmonics. But in the process you seem to be forgetting the awesomeness that is the lower harmonics. The area that really lends itself to helping in creating that edgier style of mix IMO. Working those lower harmonics at different times with different instruments and working the higher harmonics at different times to create a contrast and using that contrast to create the edge.

Just my $0.02
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#6
APZX,

many thanks again for your thoughts. I am not fully convinced that what you suggest is what I want to do with this song, but crafts-wise I should be able to, and I think I'll try to go there and see if I make it and how it will be... I may even like it, who knows... :-)

In the meantime, feel free to spoil whatever else you deem worth spoiling. Silently admiring me I can do myself.

Marc
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#7
Nice ballance mix,i like vocs here not too wet just right,good work with them.
My maiin problem is the snare,it starts off where i thought hang on thats too loud
but towards the end of the track its as if its disapearing ?from around 4.20
Also i think the tambo is well too loud,also i dont like the sound of the lead guitar
but others might love it.Overall not too shabby at all.
The kick is a swine in this song,its all or nothing i think the whole track is myself
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#8
Phonk,
The main things I'd be spoiling are not really major things. I shall not do it either. Instead I'm going to comment on my idea of this concept of edge you're looking for.

My single biggest gripe with this mix going for that edge, is to forgo a layer of definition for it. Now, I'd personally consider your mix more aggressive in overall sound. Nothing wrong with that at a fundamental level at all. Personally, I don't think that suits the song at all. To me the song wishes wants to be smoother and really play with energy. That is why I approached my mix the way I did. Fair enough you looked at it differently than myself.

Now, this layer of definition I'm talking about. When I listen to this mix all I'm really hearing is high end information on pretty much everything. Sure there is some bass and the kick has a little bit of low end. That is true. But the vocal has no real presence around 150-400Hz. That would be fine if there were something else down there such as the guitars, but they have the same issue. The only real thing in the mix to fill that gap in partially is the piano, but that is only during the choruses.

But I find that there is even more lacking in the mix. For me it is spatial information. Listening to your mix it sounds essentially mono. There is some stereo stuff, but mainly it is all restricted into mono. But what I find so interesting is actually the real lack of separation between the guitars and the vocals. The Piano, drums, Vocals, and Hammond all sound pretty separated naturally but the guitars are not all that separated from the vocals. Additionally the only instrument/instruments that actually sound like they were deliberately placed are the Drums and to a degree the Hammond (but honestly the Hammond already sounds pretty distant into the mix due to the way it was recorded). Essentially, I'm not hearing exactly where you wanted to place each instrument. To me it sounds like everything but the drums are placed directly in front of me. I have no real complaints about the bass, it sounds about how it should I think.

So, with that all being said I pose a question. Is forgoing layers of information and definition the ultimate goal coming up with an edge?
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#9
Hm, APZX,

(04-06-2013, 09:58 AM)APZX Wrote: [...] So, with that all being said I pose a question. Is forgoing layers of information and definition the ultimate goal coming up with an edge?

my first reaction when I read this was to think "come on, that's a purely rhetorical question... no, of course not!"

On second thought, I am not so sure. To be honest, I did not think much about my direction, I just had it. To some extent. Now that you made me think about it, I would say: I indeed see the correlation that you talk about, but it rather works the other way round: forgoing stuff ("layers of information and definition" may fall in that category) that conveys smoothness fosters, or at least emphasizes, roughness.

What I can tell you for sure is that some of the missing underbelly (frequency-wise) is intended, but not as much as I had in the initial mix. The narrow panning of the guitars was also intended. But beyond that, I need to think about it more. I won't have time to mix for the next 8 days or so, that will give me an opportunity to think instead :-)

Anyway, thanks for your elaboration!

What really scares me about your post is that the drums are the only voice that I did not even think about deliberately placing anywhere... ;-)

Marc
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#10
I kind of figured that you intentionally left out some of the lower frequency information.

Okay, let me elaborate on my comment of spatial information right quick. When I try to picture the location of the instruments in your mix how it looks to me is something like this. Off in the back almost in a corner is where the drums are located. I'm not sure where the tambourine is located, but honestly I'm just going say %*(# it on that particular instrument. The Piano sounds like it is well behind the other instruments really striking those keys. Honestly, one of my favorite things about this mix is actually the piano.

Now, where the mix really falls apart for me is with the guitars and the vocals. What I hear is the vocalist really on the mic. Directly on either side almost as if it is the same mic honestly are the guitars. They sound like they're coming from exactly the same source in the same place in the room. That is the problem I have with the spatial information in general. There is just no separation to tell the ear that the guitar is over there, ______ distance from the vocalist and _______ distance on the other side of the room/on the same side of the room as the other guitar. I just hear absolutely no reference for it. Not a predelay on a reverb, not a delay, not even Haas effect kind of stuff. I'm literally lost trying to figure out where the instruments are.

So, my question "Is forgoing layers of information and definition the ultimate goal coming up with an edge?" has more than one area that I draw into question. Now, if you will let me I'm going to pose a few more questions. These questions are questions that I asked myself when listening and tried my best to figure out as I listened.

Why drop below Middle C information? What purpose does that serve in the context of the mix? Does it create a more enjoyable listen or does it create a more interesting listen? What are the location of the instruments in context of one another? Is the hammond off to the side or centered and behind everything? What about the Piano? Or the drums? But most interestingly why keep the guitars and vocalist as to appear as if they're coming from the same point in space? Does it lead to a better vision of the mix? Does it make it difficult for the ear to tell what is going on?

I could write what I consider the answer based on what I hear. But I don't think it really matters what I think. What I do believe matters is the answer to a question that one should ask every time they do a mix. Does the mix truly exemplify the song? There are many different interpretations of that question and ultimately lies with the artist's vision of the song, but should be something at least in the back of any mixers head when mixing.

Okay, I need to stop writing lol. I'm beginning to make myself question myself Blush Really just more to think about than anything else.
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