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Is anyone else struggling with this mix?
#1
They say that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. After struggling mightily with this mix for a couple of days now, I feel like I can bench press a Jeep.

Following my (usually successful) normal workflow seems to produce nothing but muddiness. I've tried everything I can think of from compression to new plugins to experimenting with some radical EQ, all to no avail.

This is a good song and I'd like to do it justice. Is there something to this mix that I'm missing? Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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#2
I've mixed the song with minimal compression across individual instruments, and just simple eqing on vocals and drums.
Maybe it could be your listening envrionment? How would you want the mix to sound like?

note: i think the guitars are quite muddy, so what i did is that i use a amp plugin to give it a bit more girth and less mud. (lepou lextac)
Polishing turds is not a type of business that you want to frequently do.
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#3
(28-09-2016, 01:29 PM)LePalteFish Wrote: I've mixed the song with minimal compression across individual instruments, and just simple eqing on vocals and drums.
Maybe it could be your listening envrionment? How would you want the mix to sound like?

note: i think the guitars are quite muddy, so what i did is that i use a amp plugin to give it a bit more girth and less mud. (lepou lextac)

OK, I'll try your approach, thanks for your input.
Naturally, after I posted this, I happened upon another thread where someone mentioned that the files were already compressed and/or massaged. I did notice one part of the song that sounded as though it had a moment of gated silence (towards the end). I suppose that should've been a clue, but I'd never run across that before.
And to answer your question, the first thing I try to do in my mixes is make sure that everything is clear, which is where I'm running into some difficulty with this tune.
Again, thanks.
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#4
I have not mixed this song yet (having a fun time amidst moving and the new season starting at my job) but something I will say about making everything clear in a mix. . . it is not always possible. You will inherently have to make compromises in the tones that you hear, and see how they work together. I think LePalteFish was asking about your vision of the song. What is your focal point? What parts make you want to move? What parts are the ear candy, and what kind of ear candy effects can you add without losing focus? When you find the focal point of each section of the song, you can see where you can make your compromises to make the instruments that need to stand out to, well, stand out. You're not always going to get everything super clean, and that's okay. If something sounds dark, ask your self a question about whether it is covering anything in the mix, or if the darkness is giving character (if it is giving character AND covering parts, maybe put a compressor on the offending track, keyed by the track that you want to hear more of, so that it ducks the offending part when the "important track" is being played [just a little trick everyone should use now and then]). If it is dark and woolly, while not covering any parts, and it works with your vision, then boom! Less work will be needed. But if you subtractive EQ everything, then the whole mix can run the risk of sounding too thin.

LePalte also brought up a good point about your monitoring. Make sure you're doing a lot of critical listening to things that you know really well in your listening environment, and see if it sounds off to you at all, and if it does, note that in your head so that you can build a kind of sonic profile of they way your mix space sounds, so that you can compensate a bit. If the bass disappears, you're gonna have a bad time.

So, in short (hah), just take your time to really familiarize yourself with how your space sounds, and listen to other mixes of the song in your space, and compare compare compare.

Cheers!
Draper
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#5
(28-09-2016, 04:20 PM)loweche6 Wrote: I have not mixed this song yet (having a fun time amidst moving and the new season starting at my job) but something I will say about making everything clear in a mix. . . it is not always possible. You will inherently have to make compromises in the tones that you hear, and see how they work together. I think LePalteFish was asking about your vision of the song. What is your focal point? What parts make you want to move? What parts are the ear candy, and what kind of ear candy effects can you add without losing focus? When you find the focal point of each section of the song, you can see where you can make your compromises to make the instruments that need to stand out to, well, stand out. You're not always going to get everything super clean, and that's okay. If something sounds dark, ask your self a question about whether it is covering anything in the mix, or if the darkness is giving character (if it is giving character AND covering parts, maybe put a compressor on the offending track, keyed by the track that you want to hear more of, so that it ducks the offending part when the "important track" is being played [just a little trick everyone should use now and then]). If it is dark and woolly, while not covering any parts, and it works with your vision, then boom! Less work will be needed. But if you subtractive EQ everything, then the whole mix can run the risk of sounding too thin.

LePalte also brought up a good point about your monitoring. Make sure you're doing a lot of critical listening to things that you know really well in your listening environment, and see if it sounds off to you at all, and if it does, note that in your head so that you can build a kind of sonic profile of they way your mix space sounds, so that you can compensate a bit. If the bass disappears, you're gonna have a bad time.

So, in short (hah), just take your time to really familiarize yourself with how your space sounds, and listen to other mixes of the song in your space, and compare compare compare.

Cheers!
Draper

Spot on.
Polishing turds is not a type of business that you want to frequently do.
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#6
Many thanks for your replies, everyone. What I wound up doing with this mix was starting again from scratch by removing all the compression I'd started with, then applying EQ to the master, which resolved some of the muddiness except for the beginning after the acoustic guitar intro. Some minor tweaks and a bit of auto-panning on one of the guitar tracks in an attempt to add a bit more interest towards the end seemed to help also.

Let me know what y'all think, since everyone has a different listening environment and will be able to hear slightly different things.


.mp3    Qupe_AyniNehirde 1.mp3 --  (Download: 7.22 MB)


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#7
(28-09-2016, 04:20 PM)loweche6 Wrote: I have not mixed this song yet (having a fun time amidst moving and the new season starting at my job) but something I will say about making everything clear in a mix. . . it is not always possible. You will inherently have to make compromises in the tones that you hear, and see how they work together. I think LePalteFish was asking about your vision of the song. What is your focal point? What parts make you want to move? What parts are the ear candy, and what kind of ear candy effects can you add without losing focus? When you find the focal point of each section of the song, you can see where you can make your compromises to make the instruments that need to stand out to, well, stand out. You're not always going to get everything super clean, and that's okay. If something sounds dark, ask your self a question about whether it is covering anything in the mix, or if the darkness is giving character (if it is giving character AND covering parts, maybe put a compressor on the offending track, keyed by the track that you want to hear more of, so that it ducks the offending part when the "important track" is being played [just a little trick everyone should use now and then]). If it is dark and woolly, while not covering any parts, and it works with your vision, then boom! Less work will be needed. But if you subtractive EQ everything, then the whole mix can run the risk of sounding too thin.

LePalte also brought up a good point about your monitoring. Make sure you're doing a lot of critical listening to things that you know really well in your listening environment, and see if it sounds off to you at all, and if it does, note that in your head so that you can build a kind of sonic profile of they way your mix space sounds, so that you can compensate a bit. If the bass disappears, you're gonna have a bad time.

So, in short (hah), just take your time to really familiarize yourself with how your space sounds, and listen to other mixes of the song in your space, and compare compare compare.

Cheers!
Draper

This is great food for thought Draper, particularly since this is a Turkish song. The great Dave Pensado refers to how people expect songs to sound with regards to the time they were recorded and I wondered if that might also apply somewhat to cultures, too. Not being familiar with Turkish music, I decided to let that bass-heaviness have its way. I did manage to clarify the vocals, which is what I felt the low end was covering up, almost to the point of introducing some sibilance.
Thanks again and good luck on your move. Having this forum is a great learning tool and Mike is gracious with his time and efforts to educate, all with the goal of making great and great sounding music.
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#8
Listening on my laptop in a completely non critical listening environment, and (I've used this as the best compliment I can give while listening on my laptop) it sounds like a song! I enjoyed just letting it play, and nothing negative jumped out to me. It sounded like I was listening to a record.

Well done! (I will give a more critical listen in a few days, but no promises that the "few days" won't end up becoming weeks. . . )

Draper
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