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The popular Upper Hand
#1
I wasn't sure that I wanted to take this one on, but the love of the song got the better of me. I feel I might be in over my head all the same. Listening to other mixes it sounded very dynamic and somewhat complex.
I have approached this one with lots of multing and parallel processing with minimal downward compression and found the biggest challenge gelling the tracks to sound like a cohesive performance.
Thanks to Patrick and well done on your recorded sound. Very Nice!


.mp3    PatrickTalbot UpperHand Dangerous Mix.mp3 --  (Download: 10.51 MB)


.mp3    PatrickTalbot UpperHand Dangerous Mix#2.mp3 --  (Download: 10.65 MB)


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#2
i think this song lives for musical dynamics, but it takes some courage to get stuck in and dig them out. for example, the acoustic guitars are overly present all the way through the song. for me anyway, i find that uninteresting....monotonous even. there are times where they need to be very present, and times where other instruments should be grabbing our attention thereby allowing the acoustic guitars to back off.....let's call it contrast. listening to the levels here, it's too safe, there's no build or release, like there's no real sense of excitement when the horns come in, for example (check out some big band stuff to get the vibe these things are capable of - if you haven't seen a big band concert live, you haven't lived yet!). loudness, and hence energy (not all loudness has energy.....just loudness, so it needs care), is completely static and at one level all the time. i think if you worked this dynamic more, your mix would really communicate.

the piano is a bit of a damp squib, eh? i agree it's a difficult thing to get to work nicely, especially with the Rhodes. if you can make the thing more present and part of the action (it doesn't need to be part of the action all the time, again there are some opportunities to bring it out though), it can work well with the Rhodes as a team element. my approach was to make the piano attack duck/sidechain the Rhodes, so the piano forms the attack of the Rhodes.....allowing the Rhodes to come in and fill the space where the piano tends to fade out quite quickly (i think that's an advantage though). this also helps to overcome some of the masking tendencies between the two instruments.

back briefly to the acoustic guitars...i'd drop something like a de-esser on the transients to keep them in check in the trebles i.e. dynamic EQ. once these things get much beyond 6kHz their harmonics can get very brittle, sharp and unpleasant and some of this was experienced herein? it's quickly solved. talking of treble...the vocal's a touch sibilant this end; it takes some managing here though.

i liked that you brought the levels up during the intro. perhaps the bass could have come up a notch more....then back it off for the first verse. the outro needs to really rock though, to push the groove. sadly it's a short and sweet opportunity, but having said that we've a good lead up to the 'potentially' breezy conclusion - Patrick has set it up for us, we just need to exploit it. notice how settled the mix all sounded though, too orderly and well behaved? i think so..subjectively.

fundamentally important, you don't have any train wreaks here, but a super foundation on which to pull out some more energy, dynamic and interest. it's soooooo close.......you've done a great job thus far.

v2 with some tweaks?
come on, lose some inhibitions Big Grin
laters,,
Beware...........Cognitive Dissonance!
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#3
Thanks for the time and effort you've put in with your analysts. This is something I really needed to hear and couldn't agree more with. I can get engaged in dealing with the technical elements and forget about the purpose of the song, the music. I must admit that listening back with a clear head, the mix from start to finish is about a riveting as elevator music even though I'm quite happy with it technically. As you said, with the ingredients that we have been given, there is scope for so much more.

Version 2 Hmmm? I will have to move out of my comfort zone, loosen up and make some flamboyant moves which will be a challenge indeed.

Inhibition, I feel you know me too well?

I am a big fan of Big Band Music and have listened to it for years but have never seen a live performance. Is definitely on my to do list in the near future.

Thanks again, you have given me a lot to think about.
Dave.
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#4
I think it's a good one Dangerous!
Safe perhaps, but the tones are all great, and that's already something!
Perhaps the only nitpick I would have is that I miss the accent guitar that was adding something and is barely there in your mix, but as I said, it's a nitpick.

I wouldn't comment on The_Metallurgist's, I'm not qualified I'm afraid! Smile
Not saying that he doesn't have a point, but personally I rely myself more on arrangement and songwriting than on mixing so my mix is probably on the safe side too Wink
"Music, in performance, is a type of sculpture. The air in the performance is sculpted into something." - Frank Zappa

Some air moved here
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#5
Thanks Patrick,
I'm really pleased you approve. So far I feel I'm quite happy with how I've got the mix to gel and sound. I have just got to bring in some of the excitement of the individual instruments including the electric guitar through the choruses and emphasize your inspiring arrangement throughout. The trick will be to not over do it. See how I go.
Thanks Again.
Dave.
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#6
I have finally got around to variation#2
I have tried to add a little extra life to the song, giving some of the individual elements some space to shine. I am still swimming in safe waters with this one, nothing too flamboyant. I just can't do it!
Heres hoping it's an improvement on the first.
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#7
I like it Dave! Only nitpick (actually it was true of your previous mix, although I didn't pick this then) is that I find that the bgvs could be louder, IMHO they do add some cool counterpoint that is helping the song.
Other than that, it's sounds cool to me! Smile
"Music, in performance, is a type of sculpture. The air in the performance is sculpted into something." - Frank Zappa

Some air moved here
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#8
Thanks Patrick,
I will have another look at the backing vocals. I know that I did push them up and then settled the slider down again for what ever reason. May have to eq a bit to help it work.
btw, I'm loving "Close Your Eyes" and "No Return" a real WOW! moment when I first heard these tracks.

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#9
(01-03-2016, 11:01 AM)Dangerous Wrote: .
btw, I'm loving "Close Your Eyes" and "No Return" a real WOW! moment when I first heard these tracks.

Glad you like them! Smile
I'm having fun and always try to do some new things, so these tunes are quite different from the more jazzy ones.
"Music, in performance, is a type of sculpture. The air in the performance is sculpted into something." - Frank Zappa

Some air moved here
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#10
Great mix. Personally I would enjoy the vocals just a touch louder. The voice sounds great and it is not quite aggressive enough for my taste. Other than that every single instruments sounds awesome. The spaces are great and work very well together. Fat and happy!
PreSonus Studio One DAW
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