Come Around - mix by Dags

[Dags]

Somebody shoot me. I'm addicted to mixing.

Yes, it is 3am here and I have to be up for work in 3 hours.

This mix is a bit experimental, trying out a lo-fi effect on the drum loop. Pity there wasn't more separation with the drums - could have made the transitions a lot more interesting and smoother.

Anyhoo, let me know your thoughts.

PS: send coffee

Dags

[JohnSmith]

Welcome to our wonderful world of mixing Dags !

Damn, you progress fast... ! This mix is beautiful !
Balance is good, you created a very pleasant ambiance.

You should aslo have some rest It's important to stop sometimes, it'll save you time and will make you work faster ! (yes, it's strange, but i assure you that it works !)

You Hihat is not very pleasant, a little harsh. Maybe you could try to make it smoother and with less "bottom" ?

One thing i regret is the absence of 3rd dimension in you mix. The stereo field is well treated, but there's a huge lack of depth. What about trying to create this depth with the drums ?
Your snare could be less dry, with more "ooooooommph" (see what i mean? )
The kick too would be better with more low end punch i think.

But time to sleep now ! Come back with fresh ears tomorrow and try to focus on the depth... it's hard to achieve, but this will make your mix jump to a superior level

Great job, especially for a "beginner" !

Cheers

[Dags]

Hiya Xabi!
Very useful feedback, thanks!
Yes I'll have another crack at it later on, probably on Saturday. I have sporadic windows of opportunity to apply myself to a mix so I kind of go hell for leather when I do

Though I'm not really a beginner, I have had a little bit of experience mixing music for friends and some of my own tunes years ago (mostly MIDI instruments with my own) and I also did the 1 year diploma year at SAE back in 2008. But what I have been missing is exactly what this wonderful community is all about; getting some real feedback from very talented people who are also learning about the art of mixing and finding out where I can improve my techniques of approaching the mix and hopefully learn some new ways of doing things and help others learn as well.

I am in awe of some of the mixes people have been putting up and Mike has already educated me about the so very useful parallel distortion technique so there is clearly a lot more very interesting things to learn about this field. It's great when someone suggests something new to try. Educate me, people!

So if ever you, or anyone, wants to ask what I used to get any particular sound then I'll do my best to describe it once I have checked back in the session and I can make notes to take back upstairs to our clunky Internet computer. (Though I can sometimes get 2 bars of 3G phone coverage in my music room downstairs which is about as fast as the DSL connection)

Thanks again for giving me some pointers, matey!

Dags

[JohnSmith]

Dags,

I won't make any critic in this post...
Just tell you that it's a pleasure to hear things like that from people who love mixing.
Your words are right, and you have the humility every mixer should have : we work (or do it for pleasure, but it's exactly the same) to learn things !
If there is one "job" in the world we always have something to learn, it's mixing songs !
Some people here should learn not only to mix things, but also (and it's the most important thing to me) : stay humble, choose your words, and try to be king and usefull...

Hard job ! Much more than knowing about parallel distorsion or reverb pre delay .. !

Great mood you shown here. Thanks ! If you want feedback of your work, you achieved the way to have some !
I'll listen to your mixes and try to comment all of them !

Thank you so much for having understood the "mood" of our work !

Cheers from France (and sorry for my poor english technical language ! i do my best but i wish i had Mike's vocabulary to make things clear when i talk about mixing)

[Dags]

My friend, your English is better than the English spoken by some people where I live who have English as their *only* language

Dags

[Dags]

*sigh* another mix effort finishing after 3am. At least tomorrow (today) is Saturday....and another night to play around with it

Xabi, I think I have interpreted correctly your comments about the first cut.
The cymbals did not have the HPF set at the optimum frequency - good hearing! They now no longer have that 'trashy' sound from having all those mid range frequencies coming through

I have used a LPF on a buss to parallel compress just the kick with a fast-ish attack and faster release to give the initial thump a little more definition (having all the drums mixed together in a stereo channel makes it very difficult to treat this song)

And I have used a deeper reverb on the snare, but I am not sure if I have too much in the mix. I turn it down and it doesn't seem enough but where it sits seems a bit too wet. I gated the tail of it to cut off when the next kick occurs to clean it up a little....still not sure.

Let me know how it comes across in your listening environment.

Thanks again for taking a listen and giving me such constructive input.

Kind regards,
Dags

[JohnSmith]

Hi Dags !

Here we are for a V2 comment !

Much better of course... you almost solved the hi hat problem. Could be a little brighter and crystal clear. I hear like a lack of high end in the cymbals and hat...
Kick has the same problem than the snare i think. Maybe it's something your room doesn't respond well, but they both sound a little "boxy", like there's too much of that 300-400Hz. If you tackle those freq for bots, your kick will sit more punchy in the low end and won't interfere as it actually does with the bass.
Snare will also feel more "in the back of the room", where i'd like to hear it (but it's personnal taste...)

I don't think your reverb level is good or wrong, but maybe the reverb itself is not the one that suits the style, a little too long maybe. I'd try to combine a very short but present early reflection verb, ambiance style, very short, but with "air", to give the snare more space (maybe reduce the stereo spread of that reverb return ?... ) and then a larger one to give the resonnance that suits this style (with less high freq than in the actual one maybe? )

Last thing i think you can still improve, is how the bass sits in the mix. I would definitely love it with much more sustain, and deeeeeeeeeeeep low end, maybe i'd compress it with a LA2A style compressor, very hard (like -5 to -10 dB reduction) to make the longer notes still till the others are coming (don't know if i'm clear... pardon my english...).
I'd also re EQ it with more lows (around 80hz... ) and little cut around 200... maybe.... not sure....
One thing you could try with the bass, to make it sound clear even on crapy speakers, is a parallel distorsion, very light, with a HPF set quite high (around 300-400...) and blend it as it jumps out of the mix on small speakers and low volume (the iPhone test is a good one ! i'm not joking... always check my mixes on the shittiest thing on earth, which will also be the most used system (RIP...)

Hope i'm not pushing you too far ?... but you asked for constructive critics : i think you got some

Have a good night ! And may the force be with you

CHeers from France

[Dags]

Greetings!
Quick reply from mobile phone.

Never pushing me too far! This is very useful information Xabi. Thank you!

I actually *added* a boost at around 300Hz to the snare as I thought it sounded a little thin. I'll back it off again

Already using parallel buss distortion on the bass but I'm still wrestling with the bass/kick clarity down the bottom end of things. I had to pull out a bit of 100Hz from the bass to get the thump of the kick to come through so maybe I'll try rolling off the kick below 80Hz and adding some bass rumble to fill that hole.

Thank you again for your excellent input. I will work hard to get it all sounding much better before putting up another attempt. You must be tired of listening to it by now!

Dags

[JohnSmith]

Maybe you could also gently duck the bass with a side chaing gate from the kick too ? ..
So many options !
Don't back your 300 too much on snare, or lower the frequency boost, as it's more in the 200 that you'll find what's missing in the snare's "body".

Cheers

[Dags]

LOL! No prizes to the person who correctly guesses what time it is as I attempt uploading version 3

I pulled out a couple of quite severe fixes for the wayward bass in this song including pulling out a pile of frequencies using multiple EQ scoops, two (count 'em - two) optical-type compressors to keep all the levels under control, a bitcrusher for parallel distortion *and* a compressor to duck the bass when the kick comes in (thanks for pointing that out, Xabi!!)

I also attempted getting my track a bit louder than my other ones (Gadget and Artbass have set my benchmark for good sounding loud mixes based on the ones I have listened to so far) using a couple of compressors set at different thresholds to gently bring the peaks under control then a limiter to stop overs. So apologies to the listener in advance if the first notes startle you when the song starts.

Xabi, thanks again so very much for taking the time to listen to the first two attempts and providing me with such detailed and helpful feedback as to what I should be looking to do to improve the mix(es) of the song. This is *exactly* what I have been needing to encourage me to delve further into getting the best from what I have available to me. Up until learning about the existence of this forum I haven't had anyone to help identify the flaws I need to focus on fixing when my attention is usually on another part of the song

Righty-o - off to bed!

Dags