Rothko - mix by Dags

[Dags]

Hi CMT! Looking forward to trying my hand at a few of these mixes and getting some valuable feedback as to how things can be improved. Its very hard, working in isolation, to know whether I'm on the right track.

This is my first upload and my first attempt at the song "Rothko". I realise, after listening to a few of the other great mixes, that mine is rather on the quiet side. I didn't slam it against a limiter during the pre-master process.
Hope that it doesn't detract from the mix in any way....and there's always the volume control
Regards,
Dags

[takka360]

I like the guitar sounds,but as i am listening with phones i find the mix very spread where i have lots of action in each ear but not a lot going on in the middle
and for me its making the vocals very low and a bit distracting to listen to but its better than my first mix so well done

[Dags]

I like the guitar sounds,but as i am listening with phones i find the mix very spread where i have lots of action in each ear but not a lot going on in the middle
and for me its making the vocals very low and a bit distracting to listen to but its better than my first mix so well done

Hi Takka and thanks for your feedback.

I was wondering if I brought the main electric guitar up in the mix a little to help add some weight to the centre do you think it might do the trick?
(it is not used throughout this mix and only comes in to add variation to the 2nd verse and a couple of choruses)
I was contemplating making it more beefier but then the vox was getting lost.
With 2 acoustic and 3 electric guitar parts (and bass) to distribute around the soundstage I wrestled with keeping the vocals audible.

Also, what's the general feeling about 'wet' tracks? I have a very, very slight fast delay on the main vox, opening up to a longer, but still subtle, delay during the chorus.
But maybe upping the level of these delays might help centre the mix and keep interest focused in the vocals?

I am always reeling myself in when applying reverb and delay for straight rock tracks, as I used to apply the '80s wash to everything
Is audible reverb shunned or tolerated these days (I've been living in a cave - called parenthood - for a while so I'm a bit out of touch with musical styles)

Dags

[Mike Senior]

Hi Dags, and welcome to the Discussion Zone!

No problem about the master volume -- we're talking about mixing here, after all, rather than mastering. People can always turn things up, or import the MP3 into their DAW to see how it sounds with a bit more loudness.

I'm going to hazard a guess that you're more of a rock musician than a folky, because the bass and drums are all pretty hefty in this version, and while they don't sound bad at all, they're probably overblown for this style, I reckon. The disparity between those instruments and the guitars is also increased by the guitar sound you've gone for, which has plenty of HF, and some useful low midrange, but feels rather sparsely populated in the 500-2kHz zone. To be fair, that's basically what you've got to work with on the multitrack, but I think there's more you could do with your processing to remedy that. I used parallel distortion tactics for my Mix Rescue remix, so there are some details of what I did in that article if you're interested.

I'm guessing that the guitar sound may also be indirectly responsible for your difficulties getting the vocals to come through. If you take some of the HF emphasis out of the guitars, they'll naturally recede a bit in the mix, giving the HF from the vocal more space to push in front of them. Other than that, though, there's a lot you can do in a track like this with careful fader automation.

Is audible reverb shunned or tolerated these days

Big shiny 80s reverbs are rarely that useful for any globally applied reverb send effect, but there's no reason not to use any type of obviously audible reverb for its 'sound' and genre associations -- as evidenced by the continuing copious use of plates and springs, even in the mainstream charts. However, in this application, be careful to EQ the reverb so that it's efficient in only contributing to the frequency ranges it needs to. You can often carve out a load of frequencies from a 'feature reverb' without losing its character, thereby retaining clarity for the rest of the balance.

(I've been living in a cave - called parenthood - for a while

There are plenty of cave-dwellers here -- me included!

[Dags]

Hi Dags, and welcome to the Discussion Zone!

Thanks! It's a real pleasure to be here. I have to thank John Merchant for pointing me to this mix forum - despite being an avid Sound On Sound reader for many years.

I'm going to hazard a guess that you're more of a rock musician than a folky,

LOL! Guilty as charged I grew up with my head embedded in '80s rock and it's a very hard habit to shake. Mind you, I have a strong affiliation to the 'alternative' bands such as Pink Floyd, Queen, Bowie and even the New Romantic bands of the time as well.

Thanks so much for the pointers, Mike. I will take these on board as I revisit the mix in the witching hours of the night when I get some time to myself

Dags

[Artbass]

Hi Dags,

welcome on board!

Your mix is not too bad. I think the electric rhythm guitar could be featured a bit more. You managed to keep the hihats under my radar for most of the time, which is something to achieve on this song (see my comments on several other mixes). So good job I love the bass sound.

The drums in general stick out a bit too much and do not gel the way they could. I think the backing vocals are too wet or at least use a not to great sounding reverb. Maybe reducing the amount of reverb or using a bit of EQ on it could help here?

Maybe you could start working on it again and post it here. I think it is always great to see mixes grow. It's not only the poster that learns from it, you know?

Cheers
Artbass

[Dags]

Thanks to everyone who had a listen and offered some advice, especially Mike's golden parallel distortion on acoustic guitars - who would have guessed!? Just a touch of the distortion Aux blended with the direct acoustic guitars brought out the mids without killing the tops and I was able to back off the HF peaks I was adding.

Further taking Mike and Artbass' input I have brought up the electric guitar in the centre - I should have listened to myself earlier when I was tossing up whether to do it or not. It works and doesn't get in the way of the vocals at all. And the kick, snare and tom have also been knocked back a little to make the kit sound more open and natural and not so 'rock'

And now I'm off to bed!

Cheers, all!
Dags

[Artbass]

Did you leave out the backing vocals during the first chorus on purpose? The entrance of the electric guitar is great!

I think this mix is better than your first, the overall sound gels better and sounds just that bit smoother, that I missed in your first mix.

[Dags]

Hi Artbass

Yep, was a 'production decision' to leave the backing out of the first chorus to let the next one have more density. Same as muting the electric guitar in parts of the song. The backing vox also has two subtley different 'flavours', one widely panned and sample delayed for the pre-chorus and a more upfront, closer to centre spaced version for the chorus.

Thanks for the input!

Going to try to listen to a few tracks once the baby is asleep later on this afternoon

Dags

[Mike Senior]

it's a very hard habit to shake.

Hard Habit To Break, surely...