"Away" with mix notes

[ALX]

Just to chime in, the notes were great and helpful. I tried the time align, felt it didn't improve things. I think what I can hear is some sort of phase mismatch between the xy and close Mic's. So I can see where time aligning would be tried. I tried it for every track, also tried phase rotation of every track. Nothing really did anything that jumped out at me and and said "I'm fixed", except for flipping the phase on one of the close Mic's and not using the other close mic.the XY are perfectly fine as-is and they would be easy to just solo and leave up. So I thought xY and one close mic was best. But that's no fun, we are learning to challenge ourselves here and I wanted each mic to give a voice. That's why I then listened to each close mic and chose one to be winds and the other to be strings, and tried to pan them to sort of match place in what the xy room might be. Total guesses.
Filtered each, strings a little more low end, winds a little more highs, blend those into the XY.

The other thing that I try never to do (similar to how I feel about time align which is nearly always ugliest option imo) I did here: tons of narrow EQs all boosting and fishing for pronounced frequencies, then ducking them. Basically I guess this is needed for modal rooms or comb filtering, but I know some in the pop auto tune crowd do this stuff no matter what which is simply annoying to me. I did all these tricks for first few years but then I realized, and honestly, whatever benefit is giving is also sucking the soul away. Only in very rare occasions where I run out of options do I try it anymore.

And one important thing to understand: analog can fix bad sounds. No EQ needed, just run it through the right piece of gear and it will clip it, (make things able to be mixed louder/less limiting needed) compress, even fix the modal resonances, and add a little harmonic life (distortion). A lot of home guys won't ever believe it, but that's the biggest reason IMO the pros have that sound that is so elusive. That and tons more tracks and automation and talent. Without analog though you can waste years getting everything else perfectly right but won't ever get what they get in 3 hours, because well yeah they have the tools and teamwork. Even if the mixing engineers and producer doesn't ever use analog, you can pretty much be assured the mastering engineer isn't some guy down the street.. but instead has many hits tons of gear and uses analog constantly, many times a day.

Mixogen,
Most of what you said is correct. Most of the best mix engineers are going totally in the box to save time and to have prefect recall for edits and tweaks. I think that you have very good intentions with your comment. I have attached a clip of my mix that fades into your mix. Listen to the imaging in the clip. I peaked matched the clip. I know, should have RMS matched but this was quick and easier. Try to ignore the eq difference and focus on the imaging of the instruments. My clip plays first then Mixogen's clip. I had it repeat that sequence to give you another listen before hitting the play button again. Pay close attention to the attack on the bass plucks and the detail in the flute on the left. This is no jab at you Mixogen. Thought this was the best way to illustrate what I am hearing.

ALX

The imaging on your mix from a technical standpoint is better, but IMHO Mixogen has captured more of a feeling of being in a room with the musicians. ALX, I appreciate your dedication to progressing forward and pushing away from tradition to achieve results, I time align my snare mics to my overheads and sometimes even the other close mics on a drumkit, the whole idea of a set of room mics like this is to capture the sound of the ensemble as a whole and part of that is having things not quite as centered as they would be if recorded as a direct source.

Remember you aren't producing pop rock here, this is a live performance of an Avant Garde Classical piece recorded with mainly stereo pairs, it's not meant to sound as direct and pure as something recorded with spot mics. You've made something technically perfect but in that you've lost the humanity of the source, it's a small detail but in the end you have to wonder, "Am I making it better or am I making it different?"

Take what I have to say with the biggest vat of salt possible, I haven't mixed this and really don't have a lot of experience mixing this stuff (I mostly do metal and rock), this is ust my reaction to the snipit you posted.

Cheers,
Doug

You are correct. My part of the clip I posted has the reverb tail turned off so that you are only hearing the mic capture. His clip has reverb added. My goal was to show that aligning improves the imaging. Which you stated you were able to hear. One thing is for certain, knowing you end user is very important. Clarity, dynamics and imaging are everything to the guy who has a listening room with $100,000 reference speakers, $20,000 mono block amps and premium cabling. Check out the audiogon forum to see what they are discussing. They are on another level when it comes to audio enthusiast. Thanks for all the comments. I definitely understand your point of view.

ALX