17-04-2017, 03:10 AM
I have to be honest but you say "all of the suggestions I made make the source cleaner and more musical. The only thing that matters at the end of the day is making the source "cleaner and more musical."
are all kind of subjective.
I, personally have tried what you suggested and then asked the questions in my post above. My results were, different but not necessarily better. I do feel like adjusting the timing volume of the individual microphones in a certain mic array can create a different sound but not necessarily better sound. Especially when those mics get summed closer to mono as you do by time aligning. Your opinions differ which is fine and cool but aren't necessarily more right.
Don't just suppose that people haven't done what you said because you don't like the answer. I have out of curiosity and for the purposes of education and discussion. Can I hear these changes? Yeah, kinda. Are they better? I dunno but I doubt it because everything else changes.
In the end you posit that your choices are "an improvement in the recording" and "more musical" all subjective. Which is fine and great and I'm all for deconstructing recordings and techniques to get a different sound but that doesn't make them any "more musical" or "an improvement in the recording" than if I ran them through a distortion pedal.
In the end if presented with stereo micing of an group that image becomes paramount to the structure of the image and perspective of the picture of the music. Is it the best image? No necessarily but it's as much a picture as what an engineer can take these days. We can argue AES or whatever. But XY has long been established. I have to say that I think you're over thinking it. Maxine presented a lot of good points that you gloss over and put the onus back on her. I will say that I have done the changes, beyond reverb, that you mentioned and heard differences but can't say they were 'better or more musical'
I have no opinion or care when it comes to personal preference. I do have an opinion if it's bandied about as being right or science. This is a place with a lot of people who are of a lot of different levels of experience and sometimes all it takes is someone speaking in big, technical terms to confuse people and for them to take it with them for a long time until they learn differently.
I can talk stereo micing all day. I've done it for over 20 years on some level. Let's not get into a dick waving contest and try to impress people. Let's try to teach people. You can time align stereo mic arrays but that changes the perspective. You can change the levels of mics in a stereo array but that changes the perspective. And ultimately I don't know if you should. That was sorted by the engineer and by the techniques sorted decades before.
In a "classical" piece like this one if you do something like time align or gain change the mics then say so. That doesn't make it better. Let the listener decide. Let the mixer who's learning decide. Hell, in any case, say so. So we, who listen can learn but don't present it as right and don't worry so much if someone presses you on it.
I think all those changes are, somewhat, audible. Are they better? I think that's really subjective.
Sorry to rant. Kinda had a bit of vodka and getting a bit sure of myself. I'm sure it doesn't make all that much sense. But the feeling is there. Ha.
Cheers
are all kind of subjective.
I, personally have tried what you suggested and then asked the questions in my post above. My results were, different but not necessarily better. I do feel like adjusting the timing volume of the individual microphones in a certain mic array can create a different sound but not necessarily better sound. Especially when those mics get summed closer to mono as you do by time aligning. Your opinions differ which is fine and cool but aren't necessarily more right.
Don't just suppose that people haven't done what you said because you don't like the answer. I have out of curiosity and for the purposes of education and discussion. Can I hear these changes? Yeah, kinda. Are they better? I dunno but I doubt it because everything else changes.
In the end you posit that your choices are "an improvement in the recording" and "more musical" all subjective. Which is fine and great and I'm all for deconstructing recordings and techniques to get a different sound but that doesn't make them any "more musical" or "an improvement in the recording" than if I ran them through a distortion pedal.
In the end if presented with stereo micing of an group that image becomes paramount to the structure of the image and perspective of the picture of the music. Is it the best image? No necessarily but it's as much a picture as what an engineer can take these days. We can argue AES or whatever. But XY has long been established. I have to say that I think you're over thinking it. Maxine presented a lot of good points that you gloss over and put the onus back on her. I will say that I have done the changes, beyond reverb, that you mentioned and heard differences but can't say they were 'better or more musical'
I have no opinion or care when it comes to personal preference. I do have an opinion if it's bandied about as being right or science. This is a place with a lot of people who are of a lot of different levels of experience and sometimes all it takes is someone speaking in big, technical terms to confuse people and for them to take it with them for a long time until they learn differently.
I can talk stereo micing all day. I've done it for over 20 years on some level. Let's not get into a dick waving contest and try to impress people. Let's try to teach people. You can time align stereo mic arrays but that changes the perspective. You can change the levels of mics in a stereo array but that changes the perspective. And ultimately I don't know if you should. That was sorted by the engineer and by the techniques sorted decades before.
In a "classical" piece like this one if you do something like time align or gain change the mics then say so. That doesn't make it better. Let the listener decide. Let the mixer who's learning decide. Hell, in any case, say so. So we, who listen can learn but don't present it as right and don't worry so much if someone presses you on it.
I think all those changes are, somewhat, audible. Are they better? I think that's really subjective.
Sorry to rant. Kinda had a bit of vodka and getting a bit sure of myself. I'm sure it doesn't make all that much sense. But the feeling is there. Ha.
Cheers