A good mix IS more than balancing and tasteful choices, I absolutelty agree. A good mix begings with the artist; what's the technical level of the musicians (obviously, not all guitarist has to have the ability John Petrucci and so on, but a certain technical level IS required), do the musicians know their gear (an I mean on a more advanced level than: "This knob is has to be at 4, this at 7 and so on - he, or she, has to have detailed knowledge, what happens is I change stringe gauge, what happens if I lower the tuning with half a note on the batter skin etc etc), knowlegde of artistic expression (we just wanna sound exactly like Motörhead, isn't knowledge of artisitic expression, more the opposite, I would say). Basically, the higher level of skill and awareness equals a higher chance of getting a beyond-this-world-result. The more the band knows before hand, the better are their chances for finding the exact right mixer and producer, because they know exactely where they are going and why. Obviously economy has a say, but ... yeah, either you do it all the way or you don't, there's no law against a savings account 
As well of the band, the recording quality has a huge say in terms of a good mix. Is it gear of a cetain quality, is the recording surroundings appropriate, are the recording engineer capable and so on.
You say that you want the mix engineer to breathe life into the mix e.g. by accentuating certain things. I party disagree. Obvioulsy the snare ghosts and guitar #7's subltle figues between bar 78 and 81 shouldn't be buried in the mix. BUT, if the drummer misses half his ghosts due to lack of ability, I would say that it isn't the mix engineer's task to fix that. That is something for the drummer, and perhaps a drum teacher. The same with the guitar sound. If the recording gear, surroundings and the recording engineer is all great, and the recorded sound still isn't what the guitarist want, then I suggest that he/she learns how to use his/her amp settings instead of wasting other people's time. Obviously there are some differences between reality and recorded reality, and this is where the mix engineer earns his money. Ont the other hand, if the gear's not well, the surroundings not great or the recording engineer has hang over, then there's only one way, a do-over.
To me, the job of the mix engineer is to be as least invervening as possible. Basically, the more the mix engineer has to intervene, the higher the risk of failure. Obviously there are some things that he/she has to do, but especially in terms of recitying, he/she should keep his/hers hands in his/hers pockets as much as possible ... that's a lot of he/she/his/hers ;D
A thing that I miss in the forum is the dialogue. Recording the unknown isn't a problem, becuase you've got the preliminary dialogue; who are you, who am I, what do you like, what do I like, what's the intented target and so on. We all come from different places, gegraphically as well as cuturally, so we have diffenrent takes. Working with live music, I deal a bit with speakers, and there are differencies. I know that germans aren't as keen on the air-ish HF-frequencies as the french, which is reflected in their respective speaker designs. Transfering that to this means that a ductch mix engineer might have a totally different set of tonal preferences compared to an american, in the same what that there are certain sound dogmas in different genres (I doubt that Carter Beauford would be very pleased with the sound of Lars Ulrich's kick and visa versa).
To wrap it up, the good mix is a result of the synergy between the artist, the recording engineer, the mix engineer and the mastering engineer. Here, we are quite a lot of people and ... we are all in different places, so of course you are not gonna find the "good mix" here. Obviously, there will be mixes that suits you better than others, but, and I guess that's my main point, a "good mix" is very subjective. You've laid out what you think is a good mix and I've laid out, what I think, and we are not really close to each other, are we?
As well of the band, the recording quality has a huge say in terms of a good mix. Is it gear of a cetain quality, is the recording surroundings appropriate, are the recording engineer capable and so on.
You say that you want the mix engineer to breathe life into the mix e.g. by accentuating certain things. I party disagree. Obvioulsy the snare ghosts and guitar #7's subltle figues between bar 78 and 81 shouldn't be buried in the mix. BUT, if the drummer misses half his ghosts due to lack of ability, I would say that it isn't the mix engineer's task to fix that. That is something for the drummer, and perhaps a drum teacher. The same with the guitar sound. If the recording gear, surroundings and the recording engineer is all great, and the recorded sound still isn't what the guitarist want, then I suggest that he/she learns how to use his/her amp settings instead of wasting other people's time. Obviously there are some differences between reality and recorded reality, and this is where the mix engineer earns his money. Ont the other hand, if the gear's not well, the surroundings not great or the recording engineer has hang over, then there's only one way, a do-over.
To me, the job of the mix engineer is to be as least invervening as possible. Basically, the more the mix engineer has to intervene, the higher the risk of failure. Obviously there are some things that he/she has to do, but especially in terms of recitying, he/she should keep his/hers hands in his/hers pockets as much as possible ... that's a lot of he/she/his/hers ;D
A thing that I miss in the forum is the dialogue. Recording the unknown isn't a problem, becuase you've got the preliminary dialogue; who are you, who am I, what do you like, what do I like, what's the intented target and so on. We all come from different places, gegraphically as well as cuturally, so we have diffenrent takes. Working with live music, I deal a bit with speakers, and there are differencies. I know that germans aren't as keen on the air-ish HF-frequencies as the french, which is reflected in their respective speaker designs. Transfering that to this means that a ductch mix engineer might have a totally different set of tonal preferences compared to an american, in the same what that there are certain sound dogmas in different genres (I doubt that Carter Beauford would be very pleased with the sound of Lars Ulrich's kick and visa versa).
To wrap it up, the good mix is a result of the synergy between the artist, the recording engineer, the mix engineer and the mastering engineer. Here, we are quite a lot of people and ... we are all in different places, so of course you are not gonna find the "good mix" here. Obviously, there will be mixes that suits you better than others, but, and I guess that's my main point, a "good mix" is very subjective. You've laid out what you think is a good mix and I've laid out, what I think, and we are not really close to each other, are we?
(05-04-2020, 02:32 AM)Blitzzz Wrote: Nice discussion. I'm with Roy on this one - you have to get the basics right before trying stuff from the mixers toolbox. That's Balance, Panning, and - at least for me - automation. There are a lot of static mixes on this forum where you clearly hear that the person who did the mix didn't really listen to the tracks before mixing them.
Sure, not every song has tons of musical details or small little technical highlights that you can put into the spotlight to create more excitement. Nevertheless, you can still make sure that e.g. special accents on the hihat are audible, instead of just pulling up the fader for the hihat and ignoring it completely for the rest of the mix. After listening to almost all of the Darkride mixes, this is what I noticed most. So a good mix for me is more than just good balance and tasteful choices - you also need to breathe some life into the damn thing
I have a Polish friend, who is a sound engineer. Oh, and a Czech one too.
#nobodygoeshomehummingthekickdrum
#nosubnoshow
#nobodygoeshomehummingthekickdrum
#nosubnoshow