25-01-2024, 02:27 AM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2024, 11:28 PM by SonicTramp.)
Great song! Very groovy! I enjoyed mixing it. The kicks, especially the sub, are the headroom killer. It's almost impossible to get the mix loud w/o addressing them and the bass first. Lots of gremlins in them, especially the tail ends. I like the small little but tasty performances on the E guitars. Great performance on the band's part.
*I went back and found that the toms have lots of gremlins, too. I think it's the main source of mud in the parts where they are most dominant. There is also a washy sound from the ride and the tambourines. Both they and the toms rob the mix some headroom too.
Welsome back ST. I spelled "welcome" wrong. It's late for me and I don't care.
I gotta say, this feels off to me. I kinda wanna say it's a Mid/Side issue. I dunno. I could be wrong. Damn you Alan Blumlein for your discovery nearly a hundred years ago!
As you can see from the slurring of my typing I need to head to bed.
I'll check this out again in the morrow.
Also, you're right about the sub kick. It eats up too much headroom and isn't needed. Oh and if I remember right the other two kicks are out of phase.
Anyhoo. G'night for now.
That's ok Roy for misspelling. We all did it at one time or another. And it's good to be badck. See? I misspelled too . No need to have another listen. I kinda see what you were talking about. "off" is not exactly a clear cut word, you know. I think it's more about the rhythm section. I tried to gate the kicks out but I had it choked up too much. I didnt hear at the time, but I have another plan for them now until I get punched in the face again. I went back to check the phase on the kicks, nothing there. I might have lined them up prior, but for the life of me I don't remember I did. Very little work on the sides, just a small HP and a few cuts to let the snare thru. But that was just the first pass, and my first pass never sounded good. I'll have another go at it. Thanks for the comment, man. Glad to see that you're still alive and...slurring!
That's ok Roy for slurring. We all did it at one time or another. And I, more often than not. And it's good to be badck. See? . No need to have another listen. I kinda see what you were talking about. "off" is not exactly a clear cut word, you know, but I can take a guess. I think it's more about the rhythm section. I tried to gate the kicks out but I had it choked too much. I didnt hear at the time, but I have another plan for them now, or until the plan fails again. I went back to check the phase on the kicks, nothing there. I might have lined them up prior, but for the life of me I don't remember I did. I must have bc phase is a big deal to me, and it should be to anyone. I find it impossible to mix when things are out of phase. If that's the "off" you meant then it could have been bad EQing techniques on my part. I also notice, now, that the snare is quite dynamic. The attacks from it also takes up more headroom than I realized and so hard to get it cut thru in the mix. This type of beat needs the snare and the kicks to be loud and proud. Right now mine is neither, but I am still working on it. I tried the fastest attack/release from the comp to shave off the attack and another comp to control the tail end. It seems to do the trick. Thanks for the comment, man. Glad to see that you're still alive and...slurring! I'll post my new mix after I check it a few more times just to make sure I don't waste anybody's time. Thanks again, man.
Sorry for the late reply. My internet has been/is…unable to perform. I hope it’ll clear up soon. Anyhoo. I downloaded and listened to “Trampmix_1” which I’m assuming is the latest version posted so I’ll stick to that.
Here are my issues that may or may not coincide with what I heard the other day.
The intro is tonally ok. It feels fairly busy, which it is and it’s tricky. I find it’s hard to find the right (right, not perfect!) balances to thematically move the intro along. I’ve heard this one where it feels a bit fast and other times where it drags (which is less ideal). It’s someone waking up so there should be some impetus to the intro. So that kind of works. What I, as the listener, feels is that the vocal is on par with everything else. It should be a bit theatric. The music should support and move but not be equal to the person on stage, as it were. And to me, he’s a bit buried. More simply put, the vocal could come up a bit.
My bigger issue is where the band come is. It feels on equal weight, if not maybe a bit lower than the intro. It’s where the full kit and electric guitars and main bass all kick in and should bring the character just waking up into full reality. As the limiting dictates it must keep everything in this box and there’s no lift and nowhere for the song to go. The dynamics don’t have a chance to tell us anything.
So from that point, things feel a bit boxy, tonally. I can here everything, for the most part. But they don’t move me. Like, the solo can’t be upfront. It’s way back behind the drums. The horns should blast and they can’t. Everything feels compressed and constrained and lacks some dynamics.
Thematically, it lacks caffeine.
Technically, I dunno.
Do the kicks need gates? Maybe not. I don’t know if the sub kick adds anything. The kick drums are out of phase if I remember but as a listener, I don’t care. You can make them work tonally one way or the other. That’s just eq. Lining them up won’t help. It’s a polarity thing.
(fyi I went back and reread your 2nd post about the kick and you said “I went back to check the phase on the kicks, nothing there” And I was sure that the kick were out of phase so I downloaded the song again to double check so just to be clear the kick in and out are out of phase. I only mention this to be on the same page. (no offense to Andrew but they are(It’s fine and only takes a button to fix and even if not one would compensate)))
That said, that had nothing to do with what I heard as being off or not.
I’ll leave it there. That says it for the most part and I don’t mean to pile on.
Also, I don’t want to get buried in the technicals because I think that’s not where the issues are.
It should be a more dynamic and open song. It’s not about getting the right eq or compression or phase. It’s about letting those elements not get in the way. Yes, those tools can enhance the song but they can also remove the life out of it.
Thanks for the long comment. I know it wasted some of your time for it, and I def appreciate it. Well, when I lined (whatever) up I do look at the wave form and flip it when I see they go opposite direction. To what I have learned that should be it. I also listen to them to make sure. Sometimes, and I do run into them, they sound equally good whether flipped or not. When in that case I just throw up my hands and go with it. I also find that this song is so hard to mix. I guess I just have to "wipe my weary eyes and heading bravely to the...mix". I reloaded the whole song and start from there. Thanks for the comment, man. I do take your comment to heart. So far, you have been helping for a long time. Maybe you don't remember but I do. I'd prob still argue with you when I don't understand something, but know that it's not out of disrespect, mostly out of ignorance on my part. Thanks.
It wasn't a waste of my time at all. If I thought it was I wouldn't take the time to comment.
Yeah, that's pretty much how you work with phase. Flip it and see what sounds better. Out of phase might work better and that's ok.
I've deleted my previous mixes because I wasn't happy with them but maybe I'll download the tracks again to see and maybe I'll see what might make it difficult. I would say start with the main section.
Also, definitely check out the reference mix and the 'video mix' which is on youtube. I can't find the link now but it's easy to find. That definitely helped me have some perspective as to what parts are important and what isn't.
. No need to have another listen. I kinda see what you were talking about. "off" is not exactly a clear cut word, you know. I think it's more about the rhythm section. I tried to gate the kicks out but I had it choked up too much. I didnt hear at the time, but I have another plan for them now until I get punched in the face again. I went back to check the phase on the kicks, nothing there. I might have lined them up prior, but for the life of me I don't remember I did. Very little work on the sides, just a small HP and a few cuts to let the snare thru. But that was just the first pass, and my first pass never sounded good. I'll have another go at it. Thanks for the comment, man. Glad to see that you're still alive and...slurring!