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James May: 'Don't Let Go' - Olli H - Printable Version

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RE: James May: 'Don't Let Go' - Olli H - Olli H - 07-05-2014

THanks

To sparkle or not sparkle
I'm not sure why, but personally I like slightly darker guitar tone. Even with my own acoustic guitar I use duller string. Well, now that when I force my self to think about it, I have nothing against sparkling sound, but too often sparkling guitar is also the one that produces bad screeching tones, and they are among the most annoying "musical" noises I know. Maybe that's the reason I have accustomed myself to darker guitar tones.


RE: James May: 'Don't Let Go' - Olli H - pauli - 07-05-2014

If a sparkling acoustic starts getting abrasive, try using a de-esser... Sometimes acoustic guitars have odd harmonics in the upper registers because the instrument has such a wide range... The body is too small for the lowest notes and too large for the highest notes... And the scale of the neck, if it's not just right (almost never is, even on the most expensive guitars) lends itself to harmonics that are somewhat out of tune with the principals.

You can notch out those sour harmonics that appear when you boost the highs, but it usually sounds unnatural so de-essing or dynamic eq are usually best.

Most people wont notice those harmonics but as we're guitarists AND engineers, it can seem like a sore thumb... So leaving the guitar dark is cool, but if you want it brighter, it's probably not worth dwelling on it overmuch... Fiddle with a de-esser until you hear an improvement and move on, because nobody will notice once the rest of the mix is present Big Grin

Sorry to be overly technical... I hear those weird harmonics on chart music all the time so most people are probably so accustomed to the sounds that they can't hear it anymore Tongue


RE: James May: 'Don't Let Go' - Olli H - Olli H - 07-05-2014

Funny co-incidence: I just gave the same advice to Prince when I was commenting his version of the same song. Smile

My latest secret weapon is bx_dynEQ V2 by Brainworx. Almost everyday (= every week) I find new ways to use it. It's very versatile when one needs to solve problems.



RE: James May: 'Don't Let Go' - Olli H - Olli H - 07-05-2014

(07-05-2014, 07:31 PM)pauli Wrote: And the scale of the neck, if it's not just right (almost never is, even on the most expensive guitars) lends itself to harmonics that are somewhat out of tune with the principals.

Maybe that's the reason I don't like new strings! Everywhere one can read "remember to change the strings before recording...". But I don't want to change them. They sound so unnatural and odd to me. I wish they could be two weeks old forever.




RE: James May: 'Don't Let Go' - Olli H - pauli - 07-05-2014

I wouldn't want to record an acoustic guitar with BRAND new strings... a few days old to let them stretch and breathe a little...

The key to avoiding this is to avoid close micing the acoustic, but you have to have a superbly treated studio to get away with it. You don't hear the odd harmonics so much in a real space because the room bolsters the principal frequencies wherever the body resonance is drowning them out... and you also don't have to worry about the sound being channeled through two speakers when you're right in front of the guitar Big Grin

If you ever want to test your guitar to figure out where the odd harmonics are on the spectrum, mic it up and try gently touching the strings somewhere around the ninth fret without putting any pressure on them, and pluck around until you hear the sour sounding natural harmonic ringing. It'll sound kinda quiet in person, but on the mic it'll be ugly for sure. At any rate, the spectrogram will pretty much show you what's going on.... some of that harmonic will be present in every note played beneath the ninth fret, most especially on the open G, B, and E strings. That oughta help you get any issues with your own recordings sorted out, at least.

And the verdict is in.. I'm a nurdosaurus.


RE: James May: 'Don't Let Go' - Olli H - Olli H - 08-05-2014

Wov, I'm learning every day


RE: James May: 'Don't Let Go' - Olli H - The_Metallurgist - 08-05-2014

(07-05-2014, 09:00 AM)Olli H Wrote: To sparkle or not sparkle
I'm not sure why, but personally I like slightly darker guitar tone. Even with my own acoustic guitar I use duller string. Well, now that when I force my self to think about it, I have nothing against sparkling sound, but too often sparkling guitar is also the one that produces bad screeching tones, and they are among the most annoying "musical" noises I know. Maybe that's the reason I have accustomed myself to darker guitar tones.

Olli, this is a stunning mix! your vision here was spot on, and made for great audiophile - i never thought i'd find myself saying this in the forum!! the ambiance and interrelationships between the instruments was fantastic.....and you got the ambiance nailed beautifully. the tone you created overall in the mix was well balanced....acoustic guitars can easily get edgy and irritating as a consequence and this can put people off - unless they are half deaf anyway! i appreciated your choice of spectral balance here...especially as my ears are highly sensitive.

reading Pauli's "nerd post" above was superbly enlightening (keep it coming Pauli....nerds rock!) and added some very credible flavour to this thread. i wish more of this took place in the forum, to be honest. mixing isn't only about Art.....anyone who thinks this is living in cloud cuckoo land.

i was pleased to hear you say you built the instruments around the vocal....i don't know how many people here who aren't singers, will tend to bias their mixes towards "their" instrument and neglect the same care and attention elsewhere - it's often possible to spot the drummers from the electric guitarists, for example. vocal is THE MOST important instrument and everything else is there to support it.....and you did this to perfection.

to sparkle or not to sparkle? i think your mix answers the question impeccably and succinctly.

do you plan to mix any of David Youngs material?

on a tangent....i'm wondering if your choice of tone and use of burnt-in strings, has a lot to do with the room you are playing in and the reflections and general absorptive nature of the furnishings for example. a bright, highly reflective room will tend to exaggerate a bright instrument, especially as a reflective room will fire those signals directly back at the performer and help to exaggerate the spectral aspects. maybe this is why engineers in decent studios request new strings because this is what performs best from a recording angle in a "tuned" studio where modal interference is an irrelevant issue, and where decent mics and a quality signal chain prevail.

anyway, keep it coming, you brought joy to my coffee break! thank you so much.
Dave


RE: James May: 'Don't Let Go' - Olli H - Pedaling Prince - 09-05-2014

(08-05-2014, 10:28 AM)The_Metallurgist Wrote: mixing isn't only about Art.....anyone who thinks this is living in cloud cuckoo land.

OK. I imagine you're talking about me here, as I'm usually the one who makes a point about saying mixing is an art. However, whether or not you're referring to me is beside the point I want to make:

What is your problem, man?! "[A]nyone who thinks this is living in cloud cuckoo land." Why do you feel the need to turn observations into personal insults and name-calling? So you don't agree with anyone who holds the philosophy that mixing is art. Fine. Why not just say that? What is the point of the pedomorphic name calling?!

And you wonder why I'm "on your case."

The thing that really irritates me is not what you're saying; sometimes I even agree with you (and stated as much in another posting I made only a short while ago). What irritates me is the insulting way you insist on expressing yourself. I'm not alone in this opinion, either. I've received PMs from three people now about you (and remember, it's generally understood that for every person that speaks up there are five more thinking the same thing but keeping their mouths shut). Two of them think you're simply out of your mind. The third actually came to your defence but, interestingly enough, even that person acknowledged that your way of treating others is unnecessarily abrasive at times.

Did it ever occur to you that people might take you more seriously if you canned the sarcasm and "wit" and just expressed your ideas in straightforward, and respectful, language?

(08-05-2014, 10:28 AM)The_Metallurgist Wrote: i was pleased to hear you say you built the instruments around the vocal....i don't know how many people here who aren't singers, will tend to bias their mixes towards "their" instrument and neglect the same care and attention elsewhere - it's often possible to spot the drummers from the electric guitarists, for example. vocal is THE MOST important instrument and everything else is there to support it.....

There's a good example of something you say that I agree with. I also agree with the way you said it here; you didn't resort to name calling and snide remarks regarding the drummers and electric guitarists you mentioned. So it's obvious you can be a polite, constructive participant here.

So why aren't you?


RE: James May: 'Don't Let Go' - Olli H - The_Metallurgist - 09-05-2014

(09-05-2014, 01:12 AM)Pedaling Prince Wrote: And you wonder why I'm "on your case."

I don't think this is either the time nor the place to launch into a personal attack, and indeed, I think it's especially discourteous towards Olli and other forum participants.

Let this be clear to you, and I will say it again: I have offered you before an opportunity to contact me directly via PM if you wish to engage in personal matters.

Anyone has the opportunity to contact me directly if they feel offended or have concerns about anything i've posted during feedback, and then I can address their issues and help clear up any misunderstanding which might have occurred. I only talk facts involving mixing, and I don't engage in personal character assassinations. Nobody has contacted me directly which suggests they obviously aren't bothered....and certainly nobody has requested that I edit or remove a posting. As far as your statistics are concerned, they are irrelevant....there's always people who moan, especially if their egos have been bruised.

I have no identity....i have no ego. My only concern is getting people's mixes rocking and anything I can do to help them, I will. When I give feedback, I generally put in a lot of effort if time permits, when I could instead be doing my own thing. Actually, I have another concern....and that is the false and misleading information that some members broadcast unwittingly. Novices can't make judgements on what is right and what is wrong and those who understand the technical aspects have a responsibility to ensure they get the right information....as well as try and correct those who distribute myths, for example. Everyone is here to learn, even the person who said I was “fixated” about mono mixing. If i'm fixated, then I must have good reason to be.

If specific forum participants don't get value from my feedback they are welcome to ask me not to contribute to their threads in future and I will respect their wishes accordingly. I formally request that you cease posting on my threads henceforth. Should you continue do so, I will consider it a form of “mobbing” and will feel obliged to take formal steps. Now, please leave me alone.

Sorry Olli.




RE: James May: 'Don't Let Go' - Olli H - Olli H - 09-05-2014

I think it this way. if anyone is participating in this forum, he/she is saying in public: "I'm not pro, I'm not good enough, please help me to learn more". As we won't be able to get comments from reals pensados nor maseratis, the only choice is that we try to comment each other's mixes as honestly as possible. And those who are able to give better comments are gems of this forum.

I think you both belong to these gems. And there's not too many of them. Unfortunately.

Let's forget the past and all our interpretations of it. Let's concentrate on musical issues in this forum. Also in future I want to hear hard critic, I want to hear praises. I want to hear good arguments. You both are very good at listening and giving feedback with real arguments.

Sometimes the one with good arguments maybe in wrong, sometimes the one with bad arguments is in right. But when? I don't know. And it doesn't matter, as long as we are learning and we are willing to test and challenge our own taste and preferences.

So let's debate, let's debate hard. But only about music. And let us not take anything personally. If something feels as - or is - personal attack, let's just ignore it.
The moment I take something too personally, I consider my self as a loser.

Sorry for my bad english, it's very difficult for me to express the nuances I try to say.

Now I have to concentrate to make something for that Pensado competition. Time is running out...