Silona - Learning How To Fly [OoF]

Silona - Learning How To Fly [OoF] - Printable Version

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Silona - Learning How To Fly [OoF] - OctopusOnFire - 04-07-2020

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- If you guys could help me, I'd really appreciate it. Probably I've been calibrating the room treatment wrong for a while. I need to check if this new measurement goes in the right direction. I've uploaded a mix labeled TEST and carved out some of the frequencies I was blindly adding with the former calibration. According to the new one, I was losing frequencies around 80Hz, and therefore adding too much of it in the mixes. So, in the new mix I just carved out a little bit around there. I'd really like to know if it translates well to other speakers.

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Hi everyone,
In order to plan this mix, I though about two moods or scenarios: There's an airy, spacious, larger-than-life mood and a down-to-earth mood. I wanted to make a contrast between those two, and take the listener up and down as the song progresses.

So it starts with a very atmospheric introduction, then a very earthy, dry middle section that leads to the big instrumental part, finishing with a larger-than-life final chorus.
In general terms, I was tempted to feature the rhythmic section, but I kept it more as part of the scenery. Therefore I got a roomy kind of drums with not a lot of punch. The bass is also part of that support, while featuring the nice articulations that spice up the production. The voice should be obviously featured, but not in a "voice diva" kind of way, but a bit more integrated with the band. something that draws you in gently into the song. I wanted to give it as much of an airy, silky texture as possible without getting harsh.

Other than that, it's the usual hunting for resonances, frequencies that shouldn't poke and stuff that gets in the way of the listening experience.
I used all the tracks provided (superb work, although I'd say leaving too many options to the mixer can be more of a curse than a blessing sometimes), didn't add any samples or mastering. These are some of the best raw tracks in the site IMO.

Let me know how you feel about this mix. Any questions, comments and critiques are really, really helpful, so please do!!

RE: Silona - Learning How To Fly [OoF] - Roy - 04-07-2020

Interesting. I think we just hear things differently. To me, this feels a bit dark and relatively dry. The bass seems to 'ground' the song and weigh it down. At the bridge it opens up a bit but for a song about flying, thematically the mix doesn't seem to get off the ground. It feels like an intimate mix for a more "grand" song. But I concede we may just hear the song differently.

RE: Silona - Learning How To Fly [OoF] - OctopusOnFire - 04-07-2020

(04-07-2020, 03:38 PM)RoyM Wrote: Interesting. I think we just hear things differently. To me, this feels a bit dark and relatively dry. The bass seems to 'ground' the song and weigh it down. At the bridge it opens up a bit but for a song about flying, thematically the mix doesn't seem to get off the ground. It feels like an intimate mix for a more "grand" song. But I concede we may just hear the song differently.

Thanks for the feedback!

The middle part is not dry it is super-dry! It's purposeful. Other than that, the voice is pretty dipped in verb and echo, and some of the drums are as well. As for the darkness.... relative to what? Most of the songs posted on these forums generally have too much harshness when I compare them to commercial productions. Not saying that the mix isn't too dark, it may very well be, just want to make sure what's the benchmark. Big Grin

That said, I'm biased towards slightly darker mixes. I think it's easier to add some general shine to a mix than low end and body. It should be quite easy to add some silky top end in mastering with one of those expensive hardware EQs. Anyway, I'll fool around a bit and post someting.

RE: Silona - Learning How To Fly [OoF] - thedon - 05-07-2020

Listening to Version 2 ,
I love The Inro and effects and The balance is Perfect I Like the warm darker sound.
If I had to nit pic and personal preference maybe the bass , Acoustic guitar and Kick could have a touch more punch and definition in the mid bass area .
Well Done Big Grin

RE: Silona - Learning How To Fly [OoF] - OctopusOnFire - 05-07-2020

(05-07-2020, 09:35 AM)thedon Wrote: Listening to Version 2 ,
I love The Inro and effects and The balance is Perfect I Like the warm darker sound.
If I had to nit pic and personal preference maybe the bass , Acoustic guitar and Kick could have a touch more punch and definition in the mid bass area .
Well Done

Thanks for listening mate! Smile

RE: Silona - Learning How To Fly [OoF] - OctopusOnFire - 05-07-2020

Need some help, please check the original post.

RE: Silona - Learning How To Fly [OoF] - thedon - 06-07-2020

Listening to M2-003 and the test mix , reference mixes and my mix on HD600s ,different monitors with and without sub , The test mix sounds like it is lacking bottom especially end compared to mix M2-003.
This is Confirmed by comparing the test mix and mix M2-003 using one of my favourite plugins curve Eq .
When sampling and comparing your mix and my mix to some commercial mixes , I think we need to reference and work on more top end and bottom end .
I have uploaded some screenshots of our mixes and some reference Mixes.
With your mix the light green is the Test Mix And the Dark Green is mix M2-003.
Don's mix eq curve indicates a little too much bottom end in the 100hz area and top end rolled off a little too much .
The Pink and Greenday Eq Curves capture are similar to other reference Curves I have captured .
Of course a lot of tracks I have listened to have a lot less bottom end and very different eq curves but translate very well on different monitors.
I Played your mix my mix and some others to my kids on their Samsung and I phones and they liked your mix.

Cheers Big Grin

RE: Silona - Learning How To Fly [OoF] - OctopusOnFire - 06-07-2020

(06-07-2020, 11:00 AM)thedon Wrote: Listening to M2-003 and the test mix , reference mixes and my mix on HD600s ,different monitors with and without sub , The test mix sounds like it is lacking bottom especially end compared to mix M2-003.
This is Confirmed by comparing the test mix and mix M2-003 using one of my favourite plugins curve Eq .
When sampling and comparing your mix and my mix to some commercial mixes , I think we need to reference and work on more top end and bottom end .
I have uploaded some screenshots of our mixes and some reference Mixes.
With your mix the light green is the Test Mix And the Dark Green is mix M2-003.
Don's mix eq curve indicates a little too much bottom end in the 100hz area and top end rolled off a little too much .
The Pink and Greenday Eq Curves capture are similar to other reference Curves I have captured .
Of course a lot of tracks I have listened to have a lot less bottom end and very different eq curves but translate very well on different monitors.
I Played your mix my mix and some others to my kids on their Samsung and I phones and they liked your mix.

Cheers

Thanks, interesting stuff. I'll do another measurement of the room, see if there's a difference...

I guess the crux of the issue is that the mix sounds the way you want it to sound, and the room (or the room calibration) isn't tricking you into something else. The first two captures make sense to me, since I rolled off some frequencies around 80Hz and below (and there's a ripple effect on upper frequencies), and I can hear how your mix sounds fuller on the range of frequencies that the graphic indicates.
The commercial mixes on the 3rd capture kinda threw me off and surprised me. What the hell is this sorcery? Where do I sell my soul so I can get mixes with similar curves to sound right? Huh

It seems that we all need to learn how to stop abusing that low end and treat it properly Tongue

Anyway, I'm really glad that my mix wins on phone speakers, that clearly means it is the better mix Big Grin

PD. I was wondering for 10 minutes straight "who is this Don person he's talking about?" lol
PPD. I've been analyzing some more commercial mixes of diverse genres and just figured out that I have an aversion towards frequencies between 500Hz and 5KHz, apparently. Gotta work on that. Also messed around a bit with the mix (on a mastering level) and used Waves C6 to "safely" add a healthy dose of frequencies around that area (350Hz to 3KHz mostly), and the mix sounds closer to a point I think we all could agree resembles a commercial mix. Also did some aggressive limiting and the mix responded very well to it. Still a lot to learn.

RE: Silona - Learning How To Fly [OoF] - OctopusOnFire - 06-07-2020

Just a quick note to expand upon the problem I encountered, in case it's useful for anyone.

Long story short. If you're using Sonarworks Reference and you're keeping the microphone in your hand while measuring (as they recommend), KEEP IT AT AN ARMS LENGTH. I found this out while browsing their forums looking for help and best practices.

Here's the measures from 2018 and 2020. Check the bump moving from 200Hz to 80Hz. I haven't changed my room that much, so I blame it on keeping the microphone very close to my chest when measuring in 2018.

RE: Silona - Learning How To Fly [OoF] - Dangerous - 07-07-2020

Hey Octo,
I'm really liking M2-003. Great balance and clean sounds, quite polished. The vocal has good contrast and is centred nicely within the stereo mix. I also like the build of the ensemble as the song progresses. Very tasteful. What drew me to listening to this song further was how well it translated on my MacBook Pro speakers. It sounded really good and I just had to plug the headphones in and continue listening. Great work, an enjoyable audition. thank you.