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Full Version: Still Flying! Just did a course so tell me if its any good
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-Tried to keep it organic and not put too much compression and limiting on tracks.

-getting the levels right was the most difficult part of the whole mix since the tracks are all very varied in terms of volume

-wtf is that vocal Huh

-no vocal automation yet since there are so many tracks to wrestle w

-bussed the aux tracks and the BG vocals to reduce track count
A good mixer should always listen to the ref mix and/or the pre-prod of a band. That's the only way to deliver a mix that stays within the boundaries of the genre and meets the expectations of the fans and the band. In other words: You have to make those guys happy, not yourself.

The problem is: Your mix is a complete mess. A lot of the tracks are in the wrong place (all the leads, some vocals) and you should have fixed that before turning any knobs. On top of that, the "signature" sound of this genre is heavily based on limiting guitars, bass and vocals, clipping drums and pushing everything to the max to make every song as loud and big as possible. This band has to compete with other bands in their genre and those guys all have a huge wall of sound. Do you really think that an organic and "soft" sound will help them to stand out and make those guys happy? I doubt that.

Also: Vocals are too loud. And a lot of other stuff is not loud enough when it should be loud.
(08-12-2016, 09:58 AM)Blitzzz Wrote: [ -> ]A good mixer should always listen to the ref mix and/or the pre-prod of a band. That's the only way to deliver a mix that stays within the boundaries of the genre and meets the expectations of the fans and the band. In other words: You have to make those guys happy, not yourself.

The problem is: Your mix is a complete mess. A lot of the tracks are in the wrong place (all the leads, some vocals) and you should have fixed that before turning any knobs. On top of that, the "signature" sound of this genre is heavily based on limiting guitars, bass and vocals, clipping drums and pushing everything to the max to make every song as loud and big as possible. This band has to compete with other bands in their genre and those guys all have a huge wall of sound. Do you really think that an organic and "soft" sound will help them to stand out and make those guys happy? I doubt that.

Also: Vocals are too loud. And a lot of other stuff is not loud enough when it should be loud.

woops, sorry i totally didn't recognize that you could listen to the whole thing since i only clicked on the edited excerpt. That was 100% on me

as for electing to get a more "organic" sound, i for one am not a fan of super crushed sonics since i can't finish an album of this genre cos of the lack of dynamics! So i took it upon myself to try (this is a practice space after all) to get a "good" mix without resorting to L1s and L2s. No disrespect. I do see your point regarding competitiveness though.

Will do a revision and hopefully you check back in again! Haha.

Hey,

you can download the ref mix with a right click. it should be included in the zip but yeah, just download it and add it to your session - and add some other mixes of that genre too. I think the biggest single mistake you can do as a mixer working for other people is not using reference mixes. The band expects a certain sound, their fans expect a certain sound, and pretty much everyone else listening to that genre expects a certain sound ... and you can't ignore that. E.g. you can't use a supersubby kickdrum and combine it with a jazzy snare when the band plays 220 bpm double bass techmetal stuff. It just won't work.

Regarding L1: I think you are missing the point here. Limiting key elements of a song like rhythm guitars and bass isn't killing all the dynamics of a song. My mix doesn't sound crushed; the drums are very, very lightly compressed, the whole mix sits at 9-10 RMS for the most part of the song. But for this genre of music, it's all about control. Things are loud if I allow them to be loud. I've automated the hell out of this song, checked every part for small details like triplets on the hihat, special cymbal hits or slides on the bass or guitar and raised the volume for that single moment only to turn it immediately back down.

hi.. I agree with some points but here is my opinion.

Your mix not a complete mess. I have heard bad mixes of this song and I think you got a great balance with drums and bass.
Now we can all take different approaches to eq. Here your mix lacks a bit because there are some problems with masking and also your lead guitars are out of sync. Some vocals are low and others are loud making the vocals inconsistent to the point that you notice too much that it bugs you.

Respecting dynamics in a song is important but we should not confuse single track dynamics with the actual mix dynamics. For example in my guitars literally the level meters reach a certain height and they stay there unless they are not playing. That means there is absolutely no dynamics eventhoug there is the APEARANCE of it. they are just mind games that make us believe there is still dynamics but there isn't. When you limit the volume to.. Say -10db. And you have a recording that was very dynamic while playing the instrument, you will still have the impression of dynamics but the volume gets chopped off at -10db.

Squashing a track is obtained when peaks on the dynamics are too loud and your threshold is at the lowest registered wave. At this point the compression is very obvious. But this kind of genre is very compressed. You can always make up some dynamics with automation..

Bottom line I think you can heavy compress as long as it not squashing the sound and your mix will still sound dynamic. Note that the dynamics in the meters of a mix have A LOT to do with the sums of freq. on each track. For example you can have two guitars heavily compress to where they don't exceede -5db.. Yet in a meter the frequencies are very dynamic. This is to to the sum of freq. Of both guitars which are producing sums and drops of many freq. At the same time. (also another impression of dynamics that isn't literally dynamics in a track)

Bottom line is never be afraid and risk some things. You never know when something dumb is gonna turn into something great.

I read about this engineer who hated regaetton music.. Yet he was mixing this kind of music. He hated it so much that he wanted to destroy the mix.. So he took off the typical regaeton snare.. And placed a death metal snare (he really liked metal).
When the artist came back.. And he heard the song.. He was like "wow what is that!?" .. The guy said is a metal snare tone... The artist clapped because it was a great change in the song..... This artist became known and now most of the regaetton songs have this snare shift on some sections.

Something that wasn't supposed to be there became something that must be there now a days....
I disagree with blitz on this.. If you want a jazz snare in a metal song go for it... Why not??? Smile only a handfull of people who defied the system and the comfortzone became successful. Bill gates.. Steve jobs.. Etc.

Anything aplies in music... Anything. Smile
I'll play the middleman here and say both Blitzzz and Shul are right to a certain extent. In this case I'll agree with Blitzzz a little more only because you mention that you took a course (in what, you don't say but audio/mixing related). I think what would be the best from a learning standpoint is aiming for what the genre calls for and what the client might want. Those are big factors in mixing and having that target to shoot for is how you'll best train yourself in getting sounds and mixes that you want in the future. It creates a certain discipline.

That said, the beauty of this site is the ability to freely download and work on songs of almost any style and work on it on your own with no pressure from anyone else. This plays into what Shul's point. You can take a song and mess with it and try new things and expand your palette of sounds and techniques. Then in the future you'll be able to come up with fresh perspectives on future mixes. But I think what is best is getting a feel for what is a solid mix in the style of a genre and then expanding. Because what is libel to happen is that you'll get lazy and lean towards what you know and are comfortable doing.

This isn't an easy song. I've tried a couple of times and it just does my head in and it's safe to say have plenty of experience in mixing (even though it doesn't sound like it! ha). But it'd be easy for me to get it to sound 'ok' and call it 'organic' and call it a day but I wouldn't get much out of the experience. If I do give it another shot I know I'd go for a mix that I thought fit the style.

Look at all the things you have issues with, the levels, compression, automation, the vocals. Those are all the things you're telling yourself you need to work on. That's the point of doing these mixes. It's practice and honing your skills. Remember that you don't have to like the music to work on it. It's a service industry.

And, unrelated, did anyone ever make a note of exactly where the guitar parts should start? That would be handy.
(09-12-2016, 08:53 PM)Shul Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree with blitz on this.. If you want a jazz snare in a metal song go for it... Why not??? Smile only a handfull of people who defied the system and the comfortzone became successful. Bill gates.. Steve jobs.. Etc.

Well, sounds good, but it's not true. Not true at all. Just hit the usual forums whenever a new album of a famous band is released and see people go crazy when stuff doesn't sound like it should sound. Saint Anger anyone? Death Magnetic? Opeth?

And regarding the comfort zone: Do not think that you are innovative because you choose to use a sample/sound that normally won't be used for this genre. If you do this because you can't get the snare to sound like it should sound you take the easy way out - and therefore stay in your own comfort zone instead of learning how to get THAT sound Smile
(09-12-2016, 10:09 PM)RoyMatthews Wrote: [ -> ]That said, the beauty of this site is the ability to freely download and work on songs of almost any style and work on it on your own with no pressure from anyone else. This plays into what Shul's point. You can take a song and mess with it and try new things and expand your palette of sounds and techniques. Then in the future you'll be able to come up with fresh perspectives on future mixes. But I think what is best is getting a feel for what is a solid mix in the style of a genre and then expanding. Because what is libel to happen is that you'll get lazy and lean towards what you know and are comfortable doing.

Exactly.

If you grab a metalcore song and end up with a jazz mix, it might be funny for you, but in my opinion, you have totally missed the point. If you want to mix jazz, go and grab a jazz song on this site and make a great jazz mix. Cool! But if you grab a metal song you better make sure that your mix can compete with other mixes of that genre. If you are not able to bring this mix to a commercial level that can compete with other mixes of this genre, that's totally fine. We are all here to learn and get better. But you are cheating yourself if you say "I don't like squashed mixes, that's why I did it this way", or "I don't like to listen to ref mixes, I want to create my own version and try something new."

It's like going to a "Learn how to paint a picture like Picasso"-class and telling everyone that you don't like Picasso, but love Rembrandt instead and only want to learn how to paint like he did. Cool for you, but why don't you go to the Rembrandt-class then? =)

So: Why not try to mix it the way it is supposed to sound before breaking the rules? The chances are that you might learn something new and useful. On top of all that people don't hire you to hear your version of their song. They want to hear their version of their song. You are not the artist - you are the guy who helps them to bring their art to life. And in 99 out of 100 times, that means they want to sound like a famous band of their genre, which is absolutely fine Smile
(09-12-2016, 10:09 PM)RoyMatthews Wrote: [ -> ]And, unrelated, did anyone ever make a note of exactly where the guitar parts should start? That would be handy.

Just download the ref mix with a right click/save as on the download page. you can also use the instrumental version of my mix
Yeah. I was going to check the ref. And the instrumental will be easier to suss. Thanks. But I just figured maybe someone made a note of the start times. No biggie.
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