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Pablo Martin - Progressivo 1, El Vuelo (ZX Mix)
#1
Takes some real patience to mix this and even then I've got my fair share of issues with this mix. The hardest part was really trying to figure out how to put the orchestra with the guitars really.

Now, I know I've got some issues with clarity in places, but I think overall it sounds pretty good. Also, I know my mix is the very much aggressive/loud side, but to me the track just wanted to kind of go that way. It really does not let up once it gets going. So, I figured why not give it a nice bit of energy.

For those who are not fond of MP3s, a 16-bit WAV can be found here.


.mp3    Pablo Martin - Progressivo 1, El Vuelo (ZX Mix) [Lossy].mp3 --  (Download: 5.39 MB)


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#2
Hi ZX, it´s Pablo Martín. Thanks a lot to try mixing my song!
Question: did you use some triggers in the intro? sounds powerful!
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#3
Hi and thanks for taking the time to listen & comment! Thank you for providing such a well recorded track (except that darn tuba, I hate that tuba Dodgy )

No triggers or any fancy stuff really through out the mix. Mostly just simple EQ and compression on things. Though that tuba was a total pain and I will forever hate it. It seemed that pretty much no matter what I did with EQ and normal compression it kept coming through in a manner I did not like. Ended up using multiband compression more like a dynamic EQ. Took quite a bit of life out of it, but it serves the purpose in the track I felt it needed to.

The drums are pretty simple overall. EQ, Compression, and a little bit of transient designer stuff going on. Granted if you hear the toms solo'd they sound pretty much nothing like toms, but it is just EQ and compression on them. However, by leaving the Overheads and Drum Room mostly alone sounds that I got heavy handed with the processing of EQ and compression sound mostly how they ought to. And really with all the drum tracks I felt justified in giving the drums more sonic space than I probably should have.

The guitars have tons of added reverb. But really beyond that just EQ and even at that the EQ for the most part is simple LPF and HPF. A few of them I did get a little more heavy handed with the EQ, but mostly just LPF and HPF going on. The reason for that is most of the time with guitars I've noticed you can get them layered pretty easily by just using volume and pan. Sometimes to enhance clarity EQ is very handy. Bring up some compression to bring out the different transient characteristics a little more and really layering them is quite easy.

The orchestra bit is really trying to remember that is a rock track and not a classical piece and therefore bringing out the compressors is perfectly fine. Which is what I did a lot of.

Quite honestly about the fanciest thing I did was some sidechain compression on the bass for the kick. And that really is about as fancy as it got. A lot of the time a mix simply does not heavy handed processing to sound good.

Overall the approach to the mix was to make it a rockus symphonic crescendo if that makes any sense. Because once the track hits on it does not stop at all. It just keeps going forward with more and more. So, my intention was to try and make it sound that way.
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#4
Interesting! Thanks a lot for the comments, it took me a looooong time to generate all that material (originally they were rhodes and synths instead of the orquestra, and everything moved to what you hear).

About the tuba, I know it is not a cool sound, I made the best to make it work, but in the end I put another instrument making the same melody to complement it, if you glue them maybe that part can sound better. In musical terms, it was a little call to an epic feel, which I think it becomes interesting because the song talks about change (el vuelo means flight in spanish, so you have a metaphor there, and many things about the behavior of the instruments moves around that). Maybe that can suggest you something in the mix.

And about the crescendo, that is very interesting, i didn´t consider that possibility in the evolution of the song.

I´m really happy that you didn´t find too much problems on getting the right sound. Maybe there are some leves I would like to adjust to your mix (snare and some secondary guitars) but it sounds clean and powerful, which I think was hard to get with all the info out there.

Thanks again!
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#5
Well I have to say you did a great job with the recording overall. Really the only hard thing to mix was the Tuba which was mainly due to some low resonances. Really in comparison to some other stuff I've done the tuba was not all that bad. The thing that stuck out about it was the fact that most everything else fell into place without much issue.

The name or lyrical content of a track typically has influence on me when I mix. The reason being is that if the track is about being underwater then I'm going to treat things very differently than if it is a track about tackling on a huge horde of zombies or something. The mix ideally should reinforce/enhance the idea behind the track. It is up to the mixer and artist to come to an agreement on how this could be achieved. A wetter sound, a dryer sound, a more dynamic sound, a heavier sound, etc . . .. Without the input of the artist a mixer is just left to their own devices which can be good or bad depending on their tastes. Which is where the whole different mixers comes into play. Different mixers have their own tastes and as a result different mixers will put out different sounding mixes. Some mixers are more in line taste wise with yourself and others are not. Not better or worse in of themselves, just different.

Small level adjustments are pretty easy normally. As long as there is no need to go and rebalance an entire track little things like adding more snare or a little more guitar are typically pretty easy. But if you wanted say more "everything" then things get a little complicated as there is probably some very fundamental rework that has to be accomplished and that can take some time. But if you just want a little more snare or little more guitar? Easy stuff.
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#6
Hi !

You have nice mids in your mix. They give some power to the guitars. I found the kick and strings a bit too much loud, but as Pablo said, just a matter of taste I guess.

I would have prefer a big delay instead of a big reverb on the chorus guitar (maybe cause I just mixed a big delayed guitar for my band and loved it :p )

Keep it up !
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#7
(08-03-2015, 06:20 PM)APZX Wrote: Well I have to say you did a great job with the recording overall. Really the only hard thing to mix was the Tuba which was mainly due to some low resonances. Really in comparison to some other stuff I've done the tuba was not all that bad. The thing that stuck out about it was the fact that most everything else fell into place without much issue.

The name or lyrical content of a track typically has influence on me when I mix. The reason being is that if the track is about being underwater then I'm going to treat things very differently than if it is a track about tackling on a huge horde of zombies or something. The mix ideally should reinforce/enhance the idea behind the track. It is up to the mixer and artist to come to an agreement on how this could be achieved. A wetter sound, a dryer sound, a more dynamic sound, a heavier sound, etc . . .. Without the input of the artist a mixer is just left to their own devices which can be good or bad depending on their tastes. Which is where the whole different mixers comes into play. Different mixers have their own tastes and as a result different mixers will put out different sounding mixes. Some mixers are more in line taste wise with yourself and others are not. Not better or worse in of themselves, just different.

Small level adjustments are pretty easy normally. As long as there is no need to go and rebalance an entire track little things like adding more snare or a little more guitar are typically pretty easy. But if you wanted say more "everything" then things get a little complicated as there is probably some very fundamental rework that has to be accomplished and that can take some time. But if you just want a little more snare or little more guitar? Easy stuff.

Agree with you, actually, to me the mixing engineer is a guest artist of the band. You can make a solo sound epic or ridiculous if you put a flanger or a delay (for example).

I didnt ask you before but how did you get that sensation of sustain on the crash? I tried a lot to get it in my mix but I couldnt!

Here is mine in case you didn´t know about it (and suggestions are really welcome!)
https://soundcloud.com/pmartinchile/prog...1-el-vuelo
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#8
Taking a gander at the mix right now.

On "Ride 1" I just used a HPF, 150Hz, and a LPF, 12KHz. "Ride 2" has the same HPF but the LPF is at 18KHz. All the channels labeled as "cymbal #" are grouped into a single channel where I've got a compressor pretty much doing much of nothing, on the odd hit it'll just barely move. Used it more basic peak limiting as it were. Then another HPF & LPF situation 150Hz and 12KHz respectively. Really I used these channels to keep the transient and keep them defined within the mix.

Where I got the sustain was from mainly from the Overheads and just a little bit from the Room. The overheads have a HPF at 150Hz and some simple light compression provided by The Glue (3ms attack, -23dB threshold, 200ms release). This brought up the sustain overall of the Overheads as I already had plenty of transient information from the individual tracks. The Room was also quite important because it is mainly what gives the toms their definition and helps gives the cymbals some extra "splash". Again very simple processing overall. HPF at 270Hz and some compression. The compression this time was provided by ThrillseekerLA (think something like a LA-2A or Summit TLA-100A). Can't tell you the attack time exactly, but ballpark around 50ms and a very short release. Add some THD with the plug-in and well there you go. Really in general it just makes the Room sound a bit more "trashy" or "garage" like.

Really in general without the overheads or the room the drums sound like trash. All the space and air of the drums is from those overheads and room tracks. I really try my best to build the drum sound off the overheads and room tracks if I can.

Unless you're talking about the intro cymbal crash. If that is case then I don't know lol. I just HPF'd them. It might be also that I pretty LPF'd every guitar because a lot of times I find the HF buzz of a guitar can get in the way of a clearer mix. Much like how excess low end interferes with the low end. Give the appropriate space to the instruments and they'll just fit in where you want.

Just a quick listen and comments on your mix. It definitely sounds like you're going for power in the mix. I hear some extremely meaty and beefy guitars. If you want to do that and give your drums some extra clarity or power then I'd suggest you try a couple of things. First, try some high frequency EQ cuts from the guitars. Most of the time with guitars you don't need that high end buzz they can have. That hampers the clarity you can get from the sustain on the cymbals and drums in general. Second, try some very light sidechain compression fed off the individual cymbal tracks. If it is the intro you're talking about another thing I'd do is actually back off the volume a bit. It is a huge intro hit and if you're not careful in how drive it you can quickly find yourself running out of headroom. Though quite honestly I just like the beefiness and heaviness of this mix. Really though most of the things I find objectionable are taste things. Though I do feel as if the guitars could have just a bit in the 100 - 300Hz range cut out just to help even out the spectral balance of the track.

Indeed if you just ask a mixer to wild with something or give them a simple statement like, "Delicate" or "I want MOAR POWER!!" then yeah they'll do some pretty crazy to get that kind of feeling from a track. Or at the very least do what they can to make it that way.

If you have any other questions please feel free to ask away and I'll do what I can to offer up why I did it.
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#9
Hi! Im back! sorry for my delayed answer but now Im musician AND engineering student, so my social life has been reduced drastically jajjaja

Thanks a lot for the data!! I use to mix very simple but it requires more precision in things like the tips you just gave me. I´m already composing new Heavy Rock and Progressive stuff and i WILL TRY ALL OF THIS! (on progresivo too, of course!)

you can addle on Facebook if you want! (www.facebook.com/pmartinchile )

ttysoon!
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