I'm the guy who did the original job on the officially released version of Semantics. I've been looking through the Semantics-related threads and I've seen that many of you seem to have lots of problems with the mix and the song has been described as "a sh*tload of work".
So I'm here to answer any questions about the recording and mixing process and to help as good as I'm able to, but let me tell you that I had to spend way more than 20 hours of work on this one and I'm not a professional sound guy
Basic facts:
Interface: Tascam US-1800
DAW: Logic Pro X
Main plugins: Waves Complete Pack, EZmix, Superior Drummer 2.0 (Kick, Toms have been triggered)
Freeware-Plugins: Lepou Lextac for DI-Guitars with some cab impulses I found on the internet,
Mics:
Rode NT1-A (room and vocals)
some AKG for Overheads,
2x Shure sm57 (Snare Top & Bottom)
some condenser for the hi-hat,
Sennheiser e609 (amped guitars)
Any questions to me.
BTW I have one more song of that band that I could provide here but let me tell you that it has even more tracks and is a lot more difficult to mix, let me know if you'd like to have it here
I think any track you might contribute, regardless of mix difficulty, would be of benefit to this community. Semantics is HARD and I've been working at it here and there with little success, but don't let that stop you. "It's too hard" is the last reason anyone should choose not to do something, assuming they're trying to better themselves
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
One more thing I feel is worth mentioning... there are a few tracks on this site I've attempted that are, in my opinion, effectively un-mixable in the way they're presented, without really aggressive alterations to the sequence, arrangement, instrumentation, and so on. Attempting to mix those and falling short has been and will continue to be some of the most important mixing lessons I've ever been given...
For one, knowing when something is un-mixable is important! Or else you'll waste precious time trying to "fix it in the mix" when you'd be better off getting busy re-tracking. For two... if you attempt the impossible and learn how to get close... well, it goes without saying that better mix situations will be a lot easier and more pleasurable
I don't think Semantics is un-mixable, and I doubt High on Life is either. Bring it on.
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
(27-08-2014, 11:10 PM)pauli Wrote: One more thing I feel is worth mentioning... there are a few tracks on this site I've attempted that are, in my opinion, effectively un-mixable in the way they're presented, without really aggressive alterations to the sequence, arrangement, instrumentation, and so on. Attempting to mix those and falling short has been and will continue to be some of the most important mixing lessons I've ever been given...
For one, knowing when something is un-mixable is important! Or else you'll waste precious time trying to "fix it in the mix" when you'd be better off getting busy re-tracking. For two... if you attempt the impossible and learn how to get close... well, it goes without saying that better mix situations will be a lot easier and more pleasurable
Thanks for your feedback, Pauli! (are you german?)
I've actually used all tracks you got provided here. My personal opinion was that some tracks were... redundant, but the band wanted to keep them all in and they were with me almost during the whole mixing process.
I have to admit that I had a better chance to get a good mix because I was more flexible, regarding that I had the toms and kick as midi-data (we triggered them) and I could use any samples I wanted to. You're using Superior Drummer 2 samples in the tracks provided here.
I'll wait about two more weeks for you guys to vote in the poll so I can be sure it's worth it.
I also dloaded the Semantic tracks and after a while gave up on them, deeming them unmixable.
The biggest issue was the drum tracks which were effectively destroyed by flex-time. Once the phase relationship between the drum channels is ruined, a live drum kit is essentially unmixable. Since I don't use Logic much (only write some preproduction demos) I don't know how to phase-lock a multitrack flex-time. I know how to deal with the Pro Tools' Elastic Audio (You have to render the multitrack as a single surround track), but for drum editing I mainly use Beat Detective since it's the surest way to keep the phase relationship intact.
A snare sample doesn't help a lot if the original snares top and bottom mic (and OHs for that matter) are constantly moving around in respect of another.
(28-08-2014, 02:46 PM)Spede Wrote: The biggest issue was the drum tracks which were effectively destroyed by flex-time. Once the phase relationship between the drum channels is ruined, a live drum kit is essentially unmixable. Since I don't use Logic much (only write some preproduction demos) I don't know how to phase-lock a multitrack flex-time. I know how to deal with the Pro Tools' Elastic Audio (You have to render the multitrack as a single surround track), but for drum editing I mainly use Beat Detective since it's the surest way to keep the phase relationship intact.
A snare sample doesn't help a lot if the original snares top and bottom mic (and OHs for that matter) are constantly moving around in respect of another.
Actually I phase-locked the drum tracks after recording and before using flex-time... maybe it failed somehow while exporting in single-tracks, I'll have to look over it again. Thanks for telling me!
(28-08-2014, 01:10 PM)wurstdrummer Wrote: Thanks for your feedback, Pauli! (are you german?)
I'm always good for feedback and no, I'm american... from Daytona Beach.
What's flex-time? If the timing differs between instruments in a multimic situation, I think we'd be better off triggering samples for everything. I noticed the drums were a bit of a phase nightmare (no offense of course) and this might explain why my efforts to correct the phasing keep falling short.
Unfortunately, you've basically got to have a proper studio to get a good live drum sound because of all the inherent phase problems from the leakage.
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
(28-08-2014, 08:50 PM)pauli Wrote: What's flex-time? If the timing differs between instruments in a multimic situation, I think we'd be better off triggering samples for everything. I noticed the drums were a bit of a phase nightmare (no offense of course) and this might explain why my efforts to correct the phasing keep falling short.
Unfortunately, you've basically got to have a proper studio to get a good live drum sound because of all the inherent phase problems from the leakage.
Agree! We only had a pretty crappy drum recording room, that's why I used triggers on toms and kick and you guys got the samples of some superior drummer expansion. I didn't notice the phase issues when I gave the stems to Mike (the admin of this page). Flex time is time correction in Logic (the DAW I'm using) and I phase-locked all drum tracks to avoid phase issues and as far as I know I didn't have any problems in my mix. There really must have been a failure while exporting, I'm sorry guys!
I'll be more careful when exporting the stems of High on Life.
Are the drum tracks that badly out of time? In my experience it's almost always best to correct for phase and polarity and walk away with your hands in the air if it's a good performance. I've never had any luck at all quantizing drums without having to retrigger every single kit component -_-
Good talk, guys... We need more of this in the discussion zone
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
I guess that I should either have provided the original files without any quantizing or (as I intended to) phase-locked quantized drums.
But honestly, for having only phase-f*cked drum tracks there are plenty of really crisp mixes around, I'm amazed! Good job, guys! (y)
