This is what I managed to make this song sound like.
I found it difficult to mix multitracks that sound this "old", I don't know if it is tape deterioration over time or that recordings from the 70s just sounds like this, but I sure was not used to it.
My approach was to do as little eq as possible, to let the sound of the recording determine how the mix was going to sound like, not try to make it sound big and "modern" but make the instuments fit together as they are.
Please make a comment if you think I have succeded or not.
29-04-2014, 01:51 AM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2014, 01:53 AM by Pedaling Prince.)
(28-04-2014, 03:39 PM)lydkjell Wrote: This is what I managed to make this song sound like.
Wow...
I gotta be honest. When I read this:
(28-04-2014, 03:39 PM)lydkjell Wrote: My approach was to do as little eq as possible, to let the sound of the recording determine how the mix was going to sound like, not try to make it sound big and "modern" but make the instuments fit together as they are.
I was thinking, "Oh boy... this can't end well..." I was thinking that because:
(28-04-2014, 03:39 PM)lydkjell Wrote: I found it difficult to mix multitracks that sound this "old", I don't know if it is tape deterioration over time or that recordings from the 70s just sounds like this . . .
These tracks are most definitely not what "recordings from the 70s . . . sound like." State-of-the-art 70s studio recordings, aside from the tape noise, frequently rival the best sound of today's recordings. These tapes have significant technical issues, most likely due to storage problems. That's why I wasn't expecting much from your mix; given how bad some of these tracks were, particularly the acoustic guitar track, I was of the opinion that these tracks could never sound good with "as little EQ as possible."
If you really only did "as little EQ as possible" here, then I was wrong. Big time.
This mix is, frankly, amazing. You brought nice definition out of that horrible acoustic guitar track, gave us a nice, fat, smooth bass sound, wonderful air on the guitars and vocals, nice energetic hammond... all in all, you made these troubled tracks into something truly magical. This was a delight to listen to.
With most people who've tried to mix these tracks I've given detailed technical suggestions on how they might bring out some life in them. Clearly, you don't need my advice. In fact, the only suggestion I'd make is you do a quick fade out right after the piano plays its last note; it ends a little abruptly. But as far as the rest of it is concerned? First rate work, man. Seriously.
(28-04-2014, 03:39 PM)lydkjell Wrote: Please make a comment if you think I have succeded or not.
You have. Quite thoroughly.
Any possibility I could get a copy of your 24-bit master of this...?
29-04-2014, 12:27 PM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2014, 12:30 PM by lydkjell.)
Hi bmullen and Prince!
Thanks for listening to my mix and thanks for the positive comments!!
Thanks also, Prince, for your detailed analysis and kind words. This means a lot to a "mancave mixer" like me.
Pedaling Prince wrote:
[undefined=undefined]"If you really only did "as little EQ as possible" here"[/undefined]
Well, I did use as little eq as possible, no eq was added to change the overall sound of each instruments, only to make it fit with the rest. The only 2 channels that got a more heavyhanded treament eq-wise than hp-filter and broadband eq are the kickdrum and the acoustic.
All eqs are reaper "reaEQ" and all comps are "reacomp".
The only "cheat" I used was a ampsim (rednef twin), a free fendertwin (!) simulation on the bassgtr as I felt the recorded DI signal didnt fit in with the rest of the mix, the bass had to much subbass energy on the lownotes and was bright on the highnotes and the ampsim took care of that.
What I however did use for this mix was faderautomation on the acoustic, lead vocal and lead gtr. It helped alot bringing the acoustic gtr forward when it had a "leading role" and hiding it when it didnt. Same with the lead gtr during the very dynamic solo that starts very quietly and ends a lot louder.
Thanks again for your kind comments. They have added a little selfconfidence to a "homebrewer" with studiomixing ambitions !
two small points; 1) quite a lot of hiss during acoustic intro - maybe bleeding through from open drum mics, or bass. 2) Vocals seem a bit distant - not sure if its because you've added reverb, or whether the level is a little bit low.
04-05-2014, 09:37 AM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2014, 10:07 AM by lydkjell.)
(30-04-2014, 03:23 PM)HbGuitar Wrote: Hi lydkjell, nice sounding mix.
two small points; 1) quite a lot of hiss during acoustic intro - maybe bleeding through from open drum mics, or bass. 2) Vocals seem a bit distant - not sure if its because you've added reverb, or whether the level is a little bit low.
Cheers
Hi and thanks for your comments!
Your are right about the hiss, I did not pay much attention to it, and I should have. I'll experiment with muting the other channels and open them when they start playing.
I think most of the hiss comes from the acoustic after a lot of added highs, and the fact that it is 5 db higher during the intro than when the band comes in. And of course the accumulated hiss from the rest of the channels...
I am not sure I agree with you on the distant vocals, the reverb added on the vocals is really deep in the mix and short & descrete and is there to create space and "air", not reverb in the usual sense...
Actually, all instruments are sent to the same reverb at the same level except the synth that that has a lot more of the reverb, to create more of a room and a "stereo feel", and the hammond, bass and cymbal that has no reverb at all.
As for vocal levels, they does'nt seem too low in the mix when I listen to it here at home, neither on my A7s in the mancave or on my tiny genelec 6010s in the livingroom.
I agree that the vocals are "in the mix" and not floating on top, but in my view vintagerock vocals should not be floating on top but "struggeling" a little. That gives the mix, for some reason, more energy to me...
Maybe they are struggeling a bit to much in this mix so I'll add a dB or two on the vocals and lower the reverb a tad and see what happens!
I'm in a learning prosess right now so any feedback is good feedback!
So, again, thanks for your comments, I appreciate it!
(04-05-2014, 09:37 AM)lydkjell Wrote: I agree that the vocals are "in the mix" and not floating on top, but in my view vintagerock vocals should not be floating on top but "struggeling" a little. That gives the mix, for some reason, more energy to me...
Yes, and that's perfectly normal, vintage of the track notwithstanding. Vocals too high in the mix rob it of power because when they're too loud the overall volume of the music must be lowered so the peaks created by the loud vocals don't "clip." That's why it's important to get the vocals into that "sweet spot," loud enough to be intelligible but not so loud as to ride up over the music too much. And I agree with you on that "classic rock" sound, too, where the vocals should be just loud enough to be intelligible, and it creates the illusion of loudness when they have to "struggle" at the crescendos. Personally, I thought your vocal levels were already fine, but the levels on your new mix are just as good so it's six of one, half a dozen of the other to me.
In fact, the only quibbles I have about your current mix are, first, the piano; I think you could bring that up another 2-3 dB, and I think it would add to the emotional resonance of the track. Also, the Hammond is just a touch loud early on; maybe bring it down 1 dB?
BTW, I was serious about my request for a copy of the 24-bit master; I've gotten copies of 24-bit masters from a couple of other members whose mixes I really enjoyed. I have a Dropbox you can upload it to if you'd be willing, once you get to the final version, of course.
[undefined=undefined]In fact, the only quibbles I have about your current mix are, first, the piano; Also, the Hammond is just a touch loud early on; maybe bring it down 1 dB?[/undefined]
I agree with you, so I added a little level to the piano and took out a some mids so it would not take too much space. I also lowered the hammond a little too, especially where the guitarsolo intensifies.
[undefined=undefined]BTW, I was serious about my request for a copy of the 24-bit master;[/undefined]
I have spent some more time doing small adjustments and I think I ready to make a 24bit master, I'll PM a dropbox link your way, and add the mp3 to this thread.
Thanks for your comments, Its been inspiring, educational and good fun!!
(10-05-2014, 01:08 PM)lydkjell Wrote: I added a little level to the piano and took out a some mids so it would not take too much space. I also lowered the hammond a little too, especially where the guitarsolo intensifies.
I got the 24-bit master of this so I figured I'd listen to that for this review; might as well listen to the highest quality version available.
Yes, yes! Very nice! Now here's a good example of good frequency balance. You've got a nice bright sound going here, all of it resting on that nice, soft, thick bed of bass. This one's gonna replace my own mix in the iPhone (which is crammed full of mixes I did from this site).
Thanks for the 24-bit master! All the music in my iPhone is Apple Lossless format taken either from 24-bit masters of my own mixes or from CDs; I don't do the lossy compression thing unless I have no choice...
In fact, the only suggestion I'd make is you do a quick fade out right after the piano plays its last note; it ends a little abruptly. But as far as the rest of it is concerned? First rate work, man. Seriously. 
