Revelations - HbGuitar Mix

[HbGuitar]

A real challenge this...

As most people know who have attempted this project there are any numbers of problems to solve, not limited to

1. lack of low end in drums and bass coupled with poor mid range harmonics.
2. loss/lack of upper range harmonics in many of the instrument tracks.
3. there are upper frequencies to be had in the overhead tracks, but also the danger of clanging cymbals if boosted too hard.
4. lots and lots of mid range mud to sort through and clear out

Here's a quick overview of the main work I did

1. standard compression - maintain consistent levels on drums and bass
2. parallel compression - add urgency to guitar and vocals
3. Distortion - Snare, Kick, Congas, Guitars, Bass. Improve timbre by adding density to existing harmonics and where possible extending harmonic range
4. EQ - low end boosts on kick and bass. Boost 2,3 & 4th harmonics on bass. High end boosts on overheads. Hp filters on guitars and Hammond. LP filters to reduce hiss, mid range cuts to remove mud. Top & Bottom shelving boost across master buss for final polish.
5. Automation - used on lots of tracks, but importantly used to manage clanging cymbals during middle 8 sections

Some parts of the mix came together faster than others, namely vocals, guitars and bass. I also found myself down any number of dead ends, especially trying to get the snare to sound half decent - which I think on balance, having listened to some of the mixes posted, I never really managed to do.

Now mix is finished - or maybe one could say abandoned, I'm pretty happy. Would love to make snare sound better, but just ran out of ideas.

If you have any comments about my mix, let me know. Feedback welcomed.

p.s. I used tracks off Led Zeppelin's Presence Album as references. Released in 1976, and often quoted as being their "darkest" sounding album, I found it helpful in deciding how "bright/dark" my mix should be.
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new version, mix_01a uploaded
new version, mix_03 uploaded

[pauli]

Hey HB.

I think your guitars and bass sound very good, and the guitars are nicely separated. You got a really aggressive guitar sound and I like that a lot. Very clear that you referenced Led Zep on that aspect. The organ sounds nice, but the guitars are sort of swallowing it a little bit... maybe dip the organ bus in the upper mids and let some of the lower mids you took out of the guitars be filled by the hammond? Overall, I like your sound quite a bit, and I think Prescence was a very interesting choice for referencing... not their most popular album, so you're getting the L.Z. sound without sounding like you're trying too hard Good job.

The drums are a little uncomfortable to listen to in the phones (I can't check on the speakers yet, kids are in bed :/) but it sounds to me like the drum bus is very very heavily compressed... with the addition of the lows (which was a good idea and I think you're spot on there) it makes it more obvious... the kick drum is causing the entire kit to duck pretty often, which makes the overheads sort of "suck in" like they're taking a deep breath, then exhale and do it again. Unfortunately this effect makes the timing inconsistencies in the kick track more noticeable, too. That makes me wonder if maybe this is the source of your discontent with the snare drum? Compressing the kit in parallel might be a good idea, or you could back off on how hard the compressor on the drums is working.

[HbGuitar]

Hey Pauli,

Thanks for your very constructive comments and I think that you are probably spot on.

I've dialed back the drum buss compressor - which immediately meant I wasn't emphasizing the sub 50hz in the kick, which was kinda annoying me. The kick now has a much more listenable peak at around 60Hz. Plus, the added bonus is that the snare is now more defined and I'm able to push it a little harder without creating mushy noise. I think the end result is that the rhythm section as a whole sounds a bit tighter.

Also dropped HP filter on Hammond by 40hz and gave it a small, wide boost at 350Hz. As most of the guitar is happening at 500-1000hz, the mid range is now more balanced.

Drums are very definitely my Achilles heel so your help is really appreciated

cheers, HB

amended mix attached, mix_01a

[pauli]

Huge improvement glad I could be of help. lower the kick drum a couple decibels and tame the overheads/cymbals a bit and I think you'll have a nice solid groove happening!

Aren't drums EVERYONE'S Achilles Heel? I always struggle with live drums, too. And guitars. And basses. And vocals. And synths. Well... I'm just a hot mess

[thedon]

Hey HB
Having a listen to version 2 ,sounds nice and balanced
I may be going crazy but the kick sounds out time

[pauli]

Hey HB
Having a listen to version 2 ,sounds nice and balanced
I may be going crazy but the kick sounds out time

You're not going crazy, I hear it too. I think it has something to do with whatever technique he's using to enhance the low end... sometimes the low frequencies get to your ear a tick late. I'm not sure if I have any practical suggestions for fixing that, though, because I usually use low cuts to remedy that problem :/. Triggering a sample would work, but that's kinda passing the buck...

[HbGuitar]

Hey HB
Having a listen to version 2 ,sounds nice and balanced
I may be going crazy but the kick sounds out time

You're not going crazy, I hear it too. I think it has something to do with whatever technique he's using to enhance the low end... sometimes the low frequencies get to your ear a tick late. I'm not sure if I have any practical suggestions for fixing that, though, because I usually use low cuts to remedy that problem :/. Triggering a sample would work, but that's kinda passing the buck...

@thedon @pauli ....Just when I thought I was out.....they pull me back in......but seriously guys, thanks for your input....I've learned so much on this project.

I've gone back and looked at the Kick...I had a little bit of compression on the signal chain, maybe 3dB, but it was enough to suck up the sub 50Hz and give it a wobble, even with a fast release, and I think this is what is causing the timing issue. I've now stripped the signal chain of all compression (@ pauli ref your info on natural compression when recording on tape from other thread) so now I only have EQ and a small bit of distortion. I've even deleted and re-imported the source track, just in case I had nudged it when editing the front end.

I think this now sounds better....but what the hell do I know....I missed it previously
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New version, mix_03 uploaded

[pauli]

Sounds like another big improvement to my ears Be careful when using fast releases on low frequencies and high frequencies at the same time i.e. kick and cymbals. Low frequencies are very large sound waves, and if you set the compressor to the sort of fast release you'd need to keep the crash cymbals from sustaining too long, odds are the compressor will release in weird parts of the sound wave, and that'll make the whole kit wobble unpleasantly. IMHO, unless you want to compress in parallel , you're better off compressing the overheads/room mic instead of the entire drum bus at once when the kick is this deep, and mix the close mics into overheads... you'll get a much more natural sound and a lot more control. If you like to compress the entire bus, which is cool for getting a hard rockin' sound, use a compressor with a low frequency sidechain so you can control how much the compressor is reacting to the kick.

Another thing I found with this multitrack in particular is that the overheads are slightly out of phase with the rest of the drums... you may have fixed it, it's always hard to be sure, but especially if you're planning on compressing the drum buss it's always good practice to zoom in really close and make sure the drum tracks are aligned with eachother properly... you'll get the biggest sound that way and a buss compressor is going to make any sort of comb filtering issues much more noticeable.

I hope this helps and I'm not rehashing a bunch of junk you already know... mixing drums is a weakness for me and I think it's almost always the hardest part for most engineers. Drums are strange to mix because they react to compressors and equalizers differently than most other instruments that don't produce such hard transients, but both mixes were a big improvement on the prior in my opinion. Keep up the good work, HB

[thedon]

You got it !