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Vermont - voelund
02-01-2014, 06:53 PM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2014 06:57 PM by Voelund.)
Post: #1
Vermont - voelund
Worked on this one on and off for some days now, moved a lot o parts around, mutin some as well, to make space in the arrangement, which are a typical guitarist wanna play all the time ( I know for Im that kind ) and I took the liberty to change a lot o bass notes to fit the actual chords played and move most of them to fit the kick. I have the feeli lot of theses weathervane tracks are too hastily recorded, this one would have benefited from more time to do additional bass overdub, play the guitar parts a time or 2 more. Sometimes money, time and music are not that mixable parts ...
I also multed the damped guitarnotes in intro and made a simpler intro and waited with drums and bas some bars ...
For the sound it was mostly levelin and makin the guitars sound diffrent, even in mono. I were tempted to mut the last w├╝rlitzer part, it had some notes very off the root and chord, but I kind o grew used to the dissonance and it suits the song.
My concerns are many: did I take too much dynamics out - are the drums too low, are the bas too muddy are the voice too loud ?
Am I askin too much lol Big Grin

.mp3   Vermont 04 lim.mp3 --  (Download: 8.76 MB)

Old ears, old gear, little boy inside love music and sounds and my wife, not necessarily in that order
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02-01-2014, 07:09 PM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2014 07:57 PM by juanjose1967.)
Post: #2
RE: Vermont - voelund
I liked the new beginning you gave the song! it makes you wait for the rest of the band to start playing but just the right ammount the time before you get tired of waiting!

I think that the bass sounds fine and also, the level of the vocals are ok for the rest of the instruments (by the way, I love that delay on vocals!!). I only think that the drums could go a little bit louder, but not too much... 1db or so for my taste (not the toms, which I think they have the right volume)

Regarding the recording time in Weathervane, I once read that they have only two days available to record everything, so maybe that's what you noticed that there was some kind of rush.

mixing since April 2013
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02-01-2014, 10:36 PM
Post: #3
RE: Vermont - voelund
I think you got a really nice feeling out of this song, sonic wise is very appealing.

Regarding your balances concerns, I just can say that for my taste the Rhythm guitar on the left is a tiny bit loud during the intro/first verses but it blends well during the chorus. Maybe is this making your drums sound a bit low?? I think the drums itself are well balanced in the verses but the snare gets a bit lost during the choruses. Tiny bit up the snare or maybe brighter so it cuts better during the chorus?

The rest of the guitars parts sounds good to me. Love that reverb on the muted guitar during the intro!

Bass sounds good to my ears and speakers Smile

The vocals sound really nice all the way through, nice job!!

I believe the most important is to get the feeling of the song right and you definitely achieved that here.
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02-01-2014, 11:40 PM
Post: #4
RE: Vermont - voelund
Thank you both. Im goona work more on those drums. The left guitar is actually approx 2dB damped when it play alone, but I will try dampen it more and see if that makes sense.
Thank you for the encouraging words.
For the delay on vox I really like a 175ms slap on most voices, and the guitar is a 1/8 note blended with a longer delay, very low.
I pull out a couple of frequencies, narrow cut, from the left guitar, makes it differ better from the rest and fill less but still be loud.

Old ears, old gear, little boy inside love music and sounds and my wife, not necessarily in that order
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03-01-2014, 12:51 AM
Post: #5
RE: Vermont - voelund
Very nice mix indeed.
My only beef with this mix is the bas sound too modern or its a little too bas heavy, and thus to me, stands out a little bit compared to the guitars.
I love the new arrangement of the guitars. Cool
You should upload it over at the purple place, they love to hear remixes of the their recordings!.
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03-01-2014, 06:13 AM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2014 06:42 AM by cjbee.)
Post: #6
RE: Vermont - voelund
I respectfully disagree with all that stuff in the beginning of your post.

It's quite clear that these guys were going for a raw, gritty, and edgy tone on this song. Yeah, the playing isn't perfect. Some notes were a little sharp/flat, blah blah...whatever. That stuff lends itself perfectly to the type of song this is anyways; makes it feel more genuine, IMO. And in the grand scheme of things, you kind of have to get over the little foibles and just mix the song for what it is -- especially in a song like this where the sheer level of feel and groove is more than enough to carry it. Like, altering the bassline in your mix effectively amounted to wasted effort in my eyes; I didn't notice it, for better or for worse.

I felt that the musicians and the guys at Weathervane made it EASY for us to great, professional-sounding mix, regardless of any of the faults in the tracking/performances.

That said, I overall liked your mix and creative decisions regarding the guitar arrangements, but it sounds like a good rough mix at best. It's mainly due to the drum balance, which is really off for me. I can barely hear the snare and kick in various points, which takes critical energy and groove away from the song. I think the kit just needs to be more 'up-front' and 'closer' in general. Also, the bass sounds really "pokey" through the guitars. Feels like there's not enough low-end and you tried to compensate by just turning it up, which is masking some of your midrange. The vocals sounded good to me, although I think you could have been even a bit more aggressive with the compression. The guitars sounded great, though; nice separation on them!

Let's figure this out.
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03-01-2014, 12:46 PM
Post: #7
RE: Vermont - voelund
Thank you for your honesty !
I kinda know what to aim for - more kick n snare, deeper bas, even though Morten mention exactly the opposite, he thinks its too deep :-) I gues Ill have to trust my own instinct on this.
I have a couple of ideas in my head, and thanks again for leadin me - focus is hard to maintain when one have listened many times ...
Now I have fresh ears and ideas.

Old ears, old gear, little boy inside love music and sounds and my wife, not necessarily in that order
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03-01-2014, 03:50 PM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2014 03:53 PM by Voelund.)
Post: #8
RE: Vermont - voelund
Worked more n the drums, funny that in chorus the snare is actually less power in track, so I helped it (a lot ) and added a sample and some mono verb to it.
I like the changes.
I totally changed the bas eq and balance and added another compressor and a bus eq (pultec clone)
Hearin it now i wonder should I have given the bas AND drumbus a lift in choruses and guitar parts (or turned them down in verses, but the result is the same )
Thank you for the suggestions, and for lendin your ears.

For the wasted effort of editin bas notes - no its not wasted, as Im no expert in editin its always a challenge and I learn somthin evrytime. And I can hear the diffrence Big Grin

Also made small adjustments to middle piece guitar and gave vox bus a tad more compression and boosted couple o guitar parts that I liked :-)

.mp3   Vermont 05 lim.mp3 --  (Download: 8.84 MB)

Old ears, old gear, little boy inside love music and sounds and my wife, not necessarily in that order
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04-01-2014, 09:58 PM
Post: #9
RE: Vermont - voelund
Well to me it gels better!.
But its still to my ears a little too bass heavy. You could add a little 2.8 - 3.5khz to the kick to make it stand out in the low end. It might help the tubbyness/contrast to the gtrs a little.

But it sounds good.
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04-01-2014, 10:21 PM
Post: #10
RE: Vermont - voelund
I listend the 05 version in post #8 with headphones.

Overall sound suits very fine my fine to my personal taste. Especially the vocals sound good to me.

Some minor things.
Sonic balance between guitar in left and right. I feel that guitar energy in the left is heavier than guitar energy in the right side. I'm not sure but it might work if they had same energy level. If you solo them, do you feel that they are in balance together? How about taking hi-passing something from the left and giving just a little more low end to the right? Then they maybe could be a better pair. Or Not?

And I agree with MortenRA (#9). Kick is not audible at all under the bass.

Maybe the overall groove is a little bit "academic". Everything is there, but still some driving energy is missing.
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