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James Elder & Mark M Thompson - The English Actor
#1
Hi,

Had a try at this one. Comments welcome. Thanks!

Update 1.0: Made some changes. Many thanks to Roy for the comments and thoughts.


.mp3    James Elder and Mark M Thompson - The English Actor.mp3 --  (Download: 7.8 MB)


.mp3    James Elder and Mark M Thompson - The English Actor 1.0.mp3 --  (Download: 7.8 MB)


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#2
Quick listen, stream of conscious notes...

I like the solid low end. The synths are a bit loud. The vocals could use some effect or lead in or something. They kinda come in about of no where. It's the band's/arrangement fault so it falls on the mixer to solve. The Chorus delay are a little distracting. Both in volume and tone. Needs more going on dynamically. The level feels flat dynamically. Can't quite put my finger on it though.

It feels pretty close but could use some finessing.
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#3
I dunno, they did put in a cymbal hit to introduce the lead vocal - what more do you want? Maybe it's because the vocal doesn't start on beat 1 of the bar? I might try slotting in a filter sweep or something. Perhaps I can find a part I can fly in from elsewhere in the track.

Regarding the arrangement I think these multitracks might be from Mike Seniors re-arranged version from reading the associated article, but not sure. I'll have another read through as there might be some helpful clues there to pick up on.

Yeah, synths could be a bit loud I suppose. I did play around with the vocal level as I thought they might be better up a db but thought they were about ok where they are. Now you've mentioned the synths, I feel I could duck the synths a bit for the verses certainly, as they are the same level as in the intro. I'm happy with the chorus delays and tone though for now.

I'm with you with regard to it feeling a bit flat. I did try though! The example mix does have fairly compressed drums that might give some more movement, but I'm not really a fan of that sound I don't think. I could give it a go though. There's not that much difference tonally between the kick and snare, so could be worth trying some drum replacement. I did side-chain a lot of the synths - maybe I need to also side-chain the main pad too, and maybe exaggerate the effect a bit more. I might also be able to feature the guitar a bit more in the chorus. I could also look at spicing up the buses a bit too.

Appreciate you sharing your honest thoughts - you've certainly given me plenty to think about and consider. It's going to be quite challenging for me to knock this one into proper shape. I shall be giving it a go though for sure.

Cheers!
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#4
(26-11-2019, 08:07 PM)mikej Wrote: I dunno, they did put in a cymbal hit to introduce the lead vocal - what more do you want? Maybe it's because the vocal doesn't start on beat 1 of the bar? I might try slotting in a filter sweep or something. Perhaps I can find a part I can fly in from elsewhere in the track.

Regarding the arrangement I think these multitracks might be from Mike Seniors re-arranged version from reading the associated article, but not sure. I'll have another read through as there might be some helpful clues there to pick up on.

Yeah, synths could be a bit loud I suppose. I did play around with the vocal level as I thought they might be better up a db but thought they were about ok where they are. Now you've mentioned the synths, I feel I could duck the synths a bit for the verses certainly, as they are the same level as in the intro. I'm happy with the chorus delays and tone though for now.

I'm with you with regard to it feeling a bit flat. I did try though! The example mix does have fairly compressed drums that might give some more movement, but I'm not really a fan of that sound I don't think. I could give it a go though. There's not that much difference tonally between the kick and snare, so could be worth trying some drum replacement. I did side-chain a lot of the synths - maybe I need to also side-chain the main pad too, and maybe exaggerate the effect a bit more. I might also be able to feature the guitar a bit more in the chorus. I could also look at spicing up the buses a bit too.

Appreciate you sharing your honest thoughts - you've certainly given me plenty to think about and consider. It's going to be quite challenging for me to knock this one into proper shape. I shall be giving it a go though for sure.

Cheers!
Maybe there was a cymbal hit. I didn't notice. The impact of the change of scene didn't come through. I'm not sure a lot has to be done but as is it's static and could have a greater differentiation between the intro and verse. It's mostly an arrangement issue(*) but the mix could accentuate the change.

No one thinks you didn't try though. A good effort overall. Just giving some things to think about.

Cheers.

* Quick edit. I keep thinking and commenting about how arrangement issues affect a mix and that's a lot of what mixers have to deal with. I'm usual a proponent of mixing what you're given because that was the artist's vision but sometimes we have to know what works or doesn't in the final form. Sometimes there are changes or accents or whatever is instrumentally added to make an impact but when it comes to the final mis it might not work or might not be enough. Or the artist might be so used to the track and changes that they don't notice a need for any reinforcement. In the end it's our job as mixers to support the artist and their vision however necessary. It might be automation or an effect or a mute and it may be very subtle. An actor might act the heck out of a soliloquy but the lighting guy has to have the spotlight on him. A basic analogy but the point stands.
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#5
Apologies, I was being sarcastic regarding the cymbal hit! I agree with your thoughts and insight with regard to arrangement issues. I really hadn't picked up on the fact that there needs to be a better intro/verse1 transition for this mix.

Yeah, I was trying to get across that I had noticed the mix was a bit flat, and I had given it a go to address that. Your comments have given me plenty of ideas for further things to look at and consider, and have also started me thinking of ideas of further things to try, so it's all much appreciated. Thanks!
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#6
Hi,

Ok, Added version 1.0. Many thanks to Roy for his comments.

Not too sure why the original version was sounding as flat as it does. My first thoughts were that it would be the final limiter, as I was experimenting with some different settings with this mix, but that wasn't the culprit. I suspect it was more to do with the level of the synths in relation to the drums that was causing the issue, along with some rather conservative drum bus compression.

Anyway, I've tweaked the arrangement a little to add a bit of an introduction to the vocal. Drums have been made a little more dynamic. I've added some side-chaining to more of the synths and also made the movement a little more dynamic too. Few slight tweaks to levels and eq. I've also highlighted the guitar in the chorus too, in preference to the synth to add a bit more contrast. Oh, also lowered the volume of the vocal delays a couple of db too in the chorus as Roy suggested. I'm still happy with the tone though I think.

I feel it's sounding much better now?

Cheers!
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#7
My first thought is how different the expression gets if you emphasize the kick instead of the floor tom in the verse ...

It seems like there's a tremolo effect on guitars and synths? It's necessesarily a bad thing, just wondered ...

Only thing from the top of my head is the toms sounds a bit ... mid loaded and the vocal a bit dry.

Overall, tone a balance is nice, low end definitions is good and ... yeah. well done
I have a Polish friend, who is a sound engineer. Oh, and a Czech one too.

#nobodygoeshomehummingthekickdrum
#nosubnoshow
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#8
Hi,

Thanks for the listen and the comments.

Can't remember what I used on the guitars and synths now - likely waves doubler on a send, and maybe a couple of delays. I try and use waves doubler more sparingly, like on only one element or so now, or not at all. I have learned it does tend to make the mix a bit phasey. It's good on some pop vocals though. I tended to massively over process things, but am trying to dial back on that now. I also found multiband limiters tend to cause me issues on the mix bus too, which I likely used here. Slowly learning to have the confidence to leave things alone if they don't need any processing.

Yeah - listening back now the vocal is pretty dry. Since having a go at this mix I've spent a bit of playing around with reverb. I discovered it's worth spending the time to find the 'right' reverbs for each element in a mix. It really makes a huge difference. Agree with you regarding the toms too!

Cheers!

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