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Little Lighter...
#11
(15-07-2019, 01:37 PM)vicenzajay Wrote: Thanks to both of you! Appreciate you taking the time to listen and provide feedback!

All good learning points for me. At the same time, preferences are preferences, and personally I like the snare to breathe a bit. This is about as far as I would limit it from "rattling", as you call it. More than this, and it begins to sound either too processed or purely sampled (to me).

On the de-essing, I'm happy with it as it is. The de-esser is already pulling a good deal of information from the signal as it is, and for me the vocal is sitting fairly naturally and "full" (and forward) in its current instantiation. I did, as Txory noted, add some delay and space/plate verb to it (and there's a touch of pitch correction at about 30% mix on there as well).

Agreed on the band's release mix. That said, I've pulled three or four of the mixes of this song from this forum, and using the freq analyzer my mix has the *least* low end information of any of them. I'm curious about the monitoring setups that are out there (much as you note) as my experience so far in my limited time on this board is that most of the mixes I'm hearing have (as you say) too much low end information.

Perhaps the areas of this particular mix that you are referencing are the intro and the bass "solo" during the bridge/breakdown? I did automate several parameters to push/fatten the bass in those areas intentionally. The Juno "sub" synth is an interesting instrument to handle. Given the band's vibe, I set it up to pulse a bit more forwardly in time in with the song's tempo - maybe this is causing it to come forward too much? That might explain why the frequency information is certainly well balanced yet the impression you're getting is one of too much low end in those parts? As a more specific note (and I agree with you that mixinthecloud has a great ear/mixes), I took his third mix and placed it next to mine (gain-matched) - his mix has WAY more low freq information in the Juno bass sections with a good several db more "beef" level of kick as well throughout (it's quite useful to use a freq analyzer to see this, but it's easily heard as well). This is causing me to be unsure of how you are hearing "too much sub" information on any of the mixes on this page (given your comments). It also really has me wondering about monitoring/listening systems as well. These are just thoughts - take them with lots of salt!

Again, thanks so much for the feedback from everyone. What a great place for joint learning and exploration.

First, thank you complimenting my ear. I am truly honored.

I think you mix is sounding very good. I also don't think anyone has disparaged any part of your low end except for a desire for more meat in the snare. Your snare is just fine.

There is one comment you made which I found a bit puzzling though and that is your pitch correction on the vocal. If there is one thing about Robbie Wulfsohn's voice it is his remarkable pitch. It is what stands out the most for me about his singing besides he being a great singer. That you felt he needed some correction is surprising.

PS: I always have spectrum analysis, phase metering, VU meters and level meters running during mastering. Tools of the trade.
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#12
Opinions are like....well, you know! Yours is the only one that truly matters in these forums.

My low/sub comment is mostly in relation to translation to consumer speakers. I use Neumann KH120A for detail and a pair of Creative speakers for a second opinion. Now, I'm certainly not hearing true sub-lows on the Creatives. That said, applying the eq curve (attached) makes your mix translate much better on both monitors in the non-Juno parts. The Juno parts sound fine as is. Hope this helps.

Cheers


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#13
Awesome stuff from both of you.

Rook - that curve is (interestingly) almost exactly what I have dialed in on the "pseudo" mastering 2-buss using the AVA mastering EQ. I also have 1-2 db pulled around 800 hz as well as a slight dip (1-2 db'ish) around 8k. I will experiment with making the 100hz dip another 1-2 db across the same range that both of us selected before having this conversation! All good stuff. I can also pull some fatness out of the actual bass (which seems to be causing the translation issues per your comments). The Philips eq's have such a lovely low end that it's easy for me to want too much of it :-)

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#14
(15-07-2019, 02:50 PM)Mixinthecloud Wrote: There is one comment you made which I found a bit puzzling though and that is your pitch correction on the vocal. If there is one thing about Robbie Wulfsohn's voice it is his remarkable pitch. It is what stands out the most for me about his singing besides he being a great singer. That you felt he needed some correction is surprising.

PS: I always have spectrum analysis, phase metering, VU meters and level meters running during mastering. Tools of the trade.

Ditto on the metering/analysis tools. I try to stay appropriately skeptical of my hearing...which is going to change it its sensitivity during, and between, every mixing session!

Great question about the pitch correction. It certainly didn't need to be there. You are familiar with the band/singer, and I'm not - however, I certainly think his intonation is outstanding. What I did was use Graillon's excellent algorithm to add a bit of polish on certain parts where the lead vocal might be transitioning from a speaking to singing timbre, etc. To do that, I could automate a very light touch of the correction (mixed in at something like 30 percent - not remembering the exact setting). It certainly wasn't imperative in this setting....just good practice for me to find a judicious setting that is almost imperceptible when not directly A/B'd at specific points. I also was fairly happy that I couldn't discern any artifacts after having applied the treatment. Again, really good practice for me as I try to maintain at least rudimentary mixing chops in this season when I'm not doing music production/mixing commercially (pursuing a Ph.D., so I'm in a different season of life currently).

Cheers and thanks again for all the wisdom.
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