Enter The Haggis - Two Bare Hands

[mikej]

Hi,

My Mix. Comments, etc welcomed.

Many Thanks.

Update: Revision 1 added - thanks to Mixinthecloud for the tip.
Update: Revision 2 added.
Update: Revision 3 added.
Update: Revision 4 added.
Update: Revision 5 added.

[Mixinthecloud]

I'd suggest doing some filtering of the low end decay of your vocal reverb. I think that would glue the voice to the ensemble a little better. This is not an easy mix to get.

[mikej]

Thanks for giving it a listen, and for the suggestion.

I've cut the low end from the vocal reverb and added a mix revision to the original post.

This is certainly challenging. I guess this is tough as everything is quite bright, apart from the kick, bass and toms. It's quite difficult to get the weight and body out of the guitars to help tie everything together. There's a fair bit of a frequency gap between the bass and the other instruments. The bass is kind of taking the place of a rhythm guitar or something perhaps?

[Mixinthecloud]

Thanks for giving it a listen, and for the suggestion.

I've cut the low end from the vocal reverb and added a mix revision to the original post.

This is certainly challenging. I guess this is tough as everything is quite bright, apart from the kick, bass and toms. It's quite difficult to get the weight and body out of the guitars to help tie everything together. There's a fair bit of a frequency gap between the bass and the other instruments. The bass is kind of taking the place of a rhythm guitar or something perhaps?

Much better. Yes, it is not an easy get for a lot of the parts in this live recording. The goal is tho capture the live energy and vibe at the time of the performance. Do you think you did that?

[mikej]

I don’t think I’m quite there with this yet, but getting there.

I have had a rethink, based on the idea of wanting to get more weight out of the instruments. You really did get me thinking about why the vocal wasn’t sitting right in the mix, and I figured it wasn’t the vocal, it was everything else. The vocal left plenty of room and I wasn’t filling the space.

I think my initial volume balance was off, and I was maybe using too much eq to get the volume and tone, rather than getting the levels right to start with. I feel the overall tone was a bit off, and this was contributing to the overall harshness.

Because there was not so much bass weight I could slam it in to the limiter more, which was also probably not helping matters, likely rebalancing the frequency spread by squishing the mids and highs.

I’ve had an attempt at rebalancing and re-eq’ing to get the kick more up front to really try and fill out the bottom end of the mix.

I’ve hopefully got the bass and guitar to gel together better in the intro.

I’ve tried to get the levels of the guitar up, and attempted to get the tone up toward the vocal.

I’ve sent the main guitar to a widener to further fill things out (waves doubler, as that is what I have), as I kept in the middle and the mix sounded a bit too mono to me.

I’ve also reduced the vocal reverb amount too. I had another go at getting the snare sound. Probably relying on the reverb a bit too much for the snare but it will do for now.

I used RVox and Renaissance Axx a touch to get a bit more out of the vocals and guitars, whilst mixing. I kind of feel I could maybe get it there with better balancing. Not that there is anything wrong with these plugins, but I felt I was using them more for volume rather than compression or presence.

I think I have a much better idea of the work I need to do balance wise to get the end result I want.

I’ve uploaded the mix of where I am at as revision 2. I guess it is a bit different tone wise now, I hope it’s ok and hopefully better?

Thanks!

[Mixinthecloud]

I think you may be relying to much on the master buss to solve issue of individual instruments. Try gating the kick and snare and using compression on each and maybe buss compression on the drums. Don't be afraid to radical with eq and processing on the bass as well. Your goal is the get the vocals to sit well with the ensemble without burying either in reverb. High passing the over heads and filtering the audience/chamber will also help. Take you reverb cues from that result.

[mikej]

Yeah I think you are on the money with the reverb/chamber/overheads, etc.

I've just switched them all off and the mix suddenly has more clarity and space.... who'd have thought...

Doesn't sound that bad actually. I can now hear that gives me a lot more space in the mix to work on eq, etc to fill out each element without the masking effect of all the reverb.

I can then ease the chamber/overheads and other reverb sends back in at a more appropriate level.

Aside from the chamber I had reverb sends on the kick/snare bottom and vocal. I suspect I might find I don't need it, or certainly not as much.

I'm already employing gating, bus compression, etc. It's a good suggestion though to help get more punch, etc.

I'm really not shy with eq (which I think did get me in to trouble when the inital balance was off...).

I didn't think I was over using the master bus - I've only got very light eq for a bit of top and bottom, prob 1 db gain reduction on the comp at 1.5:1 and then the limiter. Probably limiting all that reverb... I guess I will find out!

Ok, I'll revisit this and get another revision up when I have some progress to report!

Many thanks for taking the time, it's appreciated.

[Quathamer]

I like it. You've made drastic improvements with each revision and you've made some incredible progress with a very difficult track, and the latest version is sounding better than half of the mixes out there.

One guy bloody pitched the whole song down for some strange reason. What's up with that

[mikej]

I really appreciate the advice I'm being given on here it means a lot.

I do feel like I'm starting to get somewhere with this.

I'm hearing and thinking about things differently, and am starting to understand my mistakes (I hope).

I have another mix (revision 3) ready, which I will add to the first post.

As suggested I've drastically cut down on the ambience. Huge difference.

Switching off all the ambience stuff really did give me the space to hear what I felt I needed to do processing wise.

I think I've got the vocals sitting about right now?

I actually lowered the volume of the vocal in the mix and was quite surprised with the result - it seemed the whole mix suddenly seemed to snap in place, into focus so to speak, so hopefully it's starting to come together.

I feel I might be able to push the bass (that was a great tip there Mixinthecloud) and the main guitar even more up front than I have in the latest revision, and maybe add in just a touch more ambience?

I think the snare currently sounds ok, but maybe could do with more work.

Going to give my ears a bit of a break first though I think. It might all be ok as it is I guess. I haven't tried Quathamer's snare tip yet...

I also thought about the over processed mix bus suggestion. I didn't feel I had anything too drastic on there, but I have swapped out the eq I was using for something that I think works better for this mix, and I've also changed the limiter for something cleaner too. The previous combination was adding more saturation and distortion than I realised.

I can now really hear the changes the mix bus processing has, where the mix is at the moment, especially the eq - to the point I'm actually not 100% sure I want eq on the mixbus now.

I also added about 0.3db of side gain which I felt opened up the stereo image nicely. Currently I don't feel it's too much, but I guess I might change my mind once my ears have had a rest.

I'd better post the latest revision up.

Thanks!

[Mixinthecloud]

I really appreciate the advice I'm being given on here it means a lot.

I do feel like I'm starting to get somewhere with this.

I'm hearing and thinking about things differently, and am starting to understand my mistakes (I hope).

I have another mix (revision 3) ready, which I will add to the first post.

As suggested I've drastically cut down on the ambience. Huge difference.

Switching off all the ambience stuff really did give me the space to hear what I felt I needed to do processing wise.

I think I've got the vocals sitting about right now?

I actually lowered the volume of the vocal in the mix and was quite surprised with the result - it seemed the whole mix suddenly seemed to snap in place, into focus so to speak, so hopefully it's starting to come together.

I feel I might be able to push the bass (that was a great tip there Mixinthecloud) and the main guitar even more up front than I have in the latest revision, and maybe add in just a touch more ambience?

I think the snare currently sounds ok, but maybe could do with more work.

Going to give my ears a bit of a break first though I think. It might all be ok as it is I guess. I haven't tried Quathamer's snare tip yet...

I also thought about the over processed mix bus suggestion. I didn't feel I had anything too drastic on there, but I have swapped out the eq I was using for something that I think works better for this mix, and I've also changed the limiter for something cleaner too. The previous combination was adding more saturation and distortion than I realised.

I can now really hear the changes the mix bus processing has, where the mix is at the moment, especially the eq - to the point I'm actually not 100% sure I want eq on the mixbus now.

I also added about 0.3db of side gain which I felt opened up the stereo image nicely. Currently I don't feel it's too much, but I guess I might change my mind once my ears have had a rest.

I'd better post the latest revision up.

Thanks!

The vocal is sitting in a much better place with a fuller ensemble as well. Good work on that. The snare definitely needs work as does the bass for some better definition and less boom. Great work.