10-04-2019, 03:37 AM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2019, 08:17 PM by Mixinthecloud.)
It is good to see that the artist so engaged in the critiques of the mixes here. I wonder if I am the only one though who is a bit confused by the author's reference to choruses in Bryan Adams and Tom Petty songs. I did not understand the reference considering the chorus of the Bryan Adams song had no background vocals and the Tom Petty song was a call and answer chorus. What am I missing? I also saw a reference to Rick Springfield by another mixer and that I agree with. Sorry to make that connection again. As a mixer from the 'big hair' era, this just screams ol' Ricky boy. Not that that is a bad thing.
The song has lots of challenges, with the thickness of layers being primary. There are some great interpretations here of the guitars, drums and vocals which all have unique opportunities to play around with. Kudos to my brother and sister mixers for some great work and creative approaches.
This is mine. I hope it is an enjoyable version. As always, comments and discussions are encouraged.
Fytakyte - Bitter - Mix3a
The number of distinct guitar and vocal parts in this composition generated a plethora of sub-groups. In the DAW I use (Studio One) this is a matter of packing a folder consisting of the instruments you select and assigning them to either a buss or a VCA. These can also be nested within busses so all the electric guitar become sub-goups of a main Electrics buss. This goes the same for vocals and drums, etc. In this song I decided to use exclusively in-line effect processing. For all of the guitar and vocal sub groups this allowed me to created subtle character for each figure and phrase in the song. While I could have done this with sends, the ability to have a string of compressors, EQ (pre-and post effects) and a room reverb gave me a ton of control I was after.
This version has much more attention paid to compression and eq of individual instruments and part-based busses to bring out the character of the phrases and figures which give this song its life. It is quite different than my first mix, but is based on ideas I developed in it. I hope you enjoy the comparison.
I still say I hear some "Cars", at least in the chorus.
It sounds good to me. I think this mix might be closest to what the band envisioned. You really brought out the acoustics which I think was an aspect that the artist wanted to be more out front. It certainly has that jangle they were looking for.
If I had any critiques is that it might feel a little busy or crowded. It's something that jumped out at me in the first verse. I found it difficult to focus on the vocal. It's partly the mix and partly the arrangement (and maybe overanalyzing). There's just a lot going on which is fine but makes it challenging to get everything to fit and heard. I think especially in the verse guitar 1 could come down and make room for the vocal. It's tonally complex and the melody has already been well established it could step back more.
I'm personally, not a fan of the kick drum sound but I can't say there's anything wrong with it. Maybe the beater tone brings it up in the mix and into the neighborhood of the other midrange instruments. Though it does tie it to the snare. Also, I'd have liked to hear more of the BGVs. I think they add a lot of interesting harmonic excitement to the chorus. The lead vocal has a nice tone and I like the amount of compression on it. It's a little sibilant for my taste but I like the attack it has.
I like the overall tone of the mix. That said it feels bright enough without going overboard. Oh, and I like how the "knocking" in the 2nd verse stands out without overdoing it. The snare tone just fits.
10-04-2019, 03:25 PM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2019, 03:26 PM by Mixinthecloud.)
(10-04-2019, 01:51 PM)RoyMatthews Wrote: I still say I hear some "Cars", at least in the chorus.
It sounds good to me. I think this mix might be closest to what the band envisioned. You really brought out the acoustics which I think was an aspect that the artist wanted to be more out front. It certainly has that jangle they were looking for.
If I had any critiques is that it might feel a little busy or crowded. It's something that jumped out at me in the first verse. I found it difficult to focus on the vocal. It's partly the mix and partly the arrangement (and maybe overanalyzing). There's just a lot going on which is fine but makes it challenging to get everything to fit and heard. I think especially in the verse guitar 1 could come down and make room for the vocal. It's tonally complex and the melody has already been well established it could step back more.
I'm personally, not a fan of the kick drum sound but I can't say there's anything wrong with it. Maybe the beater tone brings it up in the mix and into the neighborhood of the other midrange instruments. Though it does tie it to the snare. Also, I'd have liked to hear more of the BGVs. I think they add a lot of interesting harmonic excitement to the chorus. The lead vocal has a nice tone and I like the amount of compression on it. It's a little sibilant for my taste but I like the attack it has.
I like the overall tone of the mix. That said it feels bright enough without going overboard. Oh, and I like how the "knocking" in the 2nd verse stands out without overdoing it. The snare tone just fits.
Sorry to ramble. I'll go get some coffee.
Roy,
"Most people, only stop drinking, when there's nothing left in the cup"...
Profound, huh? For me, I just like to keep sucking from an empty cup in the impossible hope that it may magically fill again.
This song is all about texture, because eeking out definition with all of the layers presented is a fools errand, IMHO. So I didn't fight it. I did a bunch of mixes with this and I neither loved nor hated any of them. They all had some flaw in them. This is the one I decided to post, but I'm not sure why.
Have you had a chance to listen to any of the artist's other material? I followed his links and found out his other material is incredible. More Zappa-ish than anything else and brilliant stuff, excellently crafted and mixed. Would have loved to get my ears on some of those songs. I get the impression he posted this one with Mike because even he couldn't come up with something he liked!
Anyway, thanks for the critique. You always have great insights. Oh, and yes, definitely some "Cars" in this. Mention any '80s big hair band an you may find some allusion. Even Queen, but way thicker.
"Most people, only stop drinking, when there's nothing left in the cup"...
Profound, huh? For me, I just like to keep sucking from an empty cup in the impossible hope that it may magically fill again.
This song is all about texture, because eeking out definition with all of the layers presented is a fools errand, IMHO. So I didn't fight it. I did a bunch of mixes with this and I neither loved nor hated any of them. They all had some flaw in them. This is the one I decided to post, but I'm not sure why.
Have you had a chance to listen to any of the artist's other material? I followed his links and found out his other material is incredible. More Zappa-ish than anything else and brilliant stuff, excellently crafted and mixed. Would have loved to get my ears on some of those songs. I get the impression he posted this one with Mike because even he couldn't come up with something he liked!
Anyway, thanks for the critique. You always have great insights. Oh, and yes, definitely some "Cars" in this. Mention any '80s big hair band an you may find some allusion. Even Queen, but way thicker.
I can see what you're saying and can agree about going for texture over definition. I think part of it is knowing all of the elements in the song and listening for everything.
I haven't checked out the other songs by Fytakyte but I meant to. Thanks for the reminder. Also you reminded me that I meant to check out a Zappa song for a vocal sound I remember liking. So, bonus. I do think this is a good song to mix though for all of the parts and all of the choices and directions one can take this song in. It's great to practice on. Hopefully, he'll post others.
(10-04-2019, 03:52 PM)RoyMatthews Wrote: I can see what you're saying and can agree about going for texture over definition. I think part of it is knowing all of the elements in the song and listening for everything.
I haven't checked out the other songs by Fytakyte but I meant to. Thanks for the reminder. Also you reminded me that I meant to check out a Zappa song for a vocal sound I remember liking. So, bonus. I do think this is a good song to mix though for all of the parts and all of the choices and directions one can take this song in. It's great to practice on. Hopefully, he'll post others.
Cheers!
After the hundred or so passes at this I think I can say I am pretty familiar with all the parts. I created a bus of the stereo pairings of guitars 2 through 9 which are the candy in this. Guitar 1 being the "jangley" parts and guitar 10 being the solo. Unfortunately there is not a lot of distinction between the tone of guitars 2 - 9. I guess I could have spent a few more hours finding distinct tones for all of those but the intent seemed pretty clear from the artist.
I hope you get a chance to listen to the artist's other music. It is wholly different than this song.
I hope it didn't seem like I was implying that you didn't know the parts. I meant that as someone who knows all the parts and what to listen for I might analyze what I might be expecting to hear rather than just taking the mix as is.
Yeah, guitars 2-7 especially are just stacks that are there to make things bigger. There isn't a need to really make those distinct. They're (almost) a single entity in my mind to support the chorus. Load bearing guitars.
(10-04-2019, 04:56 PM)Cudjoe Wrote: Hi Mtc sounds very good but i think the kick maybe a little clicky but apart from that its nice mix,iam working on this one at the moment.
(10-04-2019, 04:47 PM)RoyMatthews Wrote: I hope it didn't seem like I was implying that you didn't know the parts. I meant that as someone who knows all the parts and what to listen for I might analyze what I might be expecting to hear rather than just taking the mix as is.
Yeah, guitars 2-7 especially are just stacks that are there to make things bigger. There isn't a need to really make those distinct. They're (almost) a single entity in my mind to support the chorus. Load bearing guitars.
I'll check out the other songs in a minute.
No, no. I did not take you comment that way. I was only lamenting the number of passes I/we have obviously taken through this song.
I like the term "load bearing" as in structural. Well put.
