Santa Fe - Rook Mix

[Rook]

V3 posted....addressed feedback from Mixinthecloud and Roymatthews. I think the vocal fits better with the band. Thanks for listening.

Thanks. I may take another crack at it.

Two compressors on the vocals here too.

On vers. 2 I still feel the lead vocal is too disconnected from the ensemble and that the guitar on the right is too low in relation to the guitar on the left. It's real close and the all the sounds are excellent.

Placement of the lead vocal on this track is amazingly tricky. Getting it to lay against the ensemble while holding on to the intimacy at the ends of phrases is not easy.

[Monk]

Here is my shot at Santa Fe. v3

Cutting to the chase, the biggest problem is the missing spatial glue and commonality all the instruments are missing. This doesn't mean I think you should feed everything into a send with a verb emu dangling off it. You need to make this 3D. At the moment, it's still very much a 2D presentation.

The challenge of this multi makes it particularly interesting, because it’s not rich with spill (I suspect the gtr cabs were in another room!), so there’s missing that subtle sense of depth and space which comes from the phase inter-relationships between the mikes which our unconscious attention would compute in our mind’s interpretation.

Couple this to the problem of the gtr effects, which although by definition are not ambient in nature, they do provide a sense of depth and space, albeit in an unconventional manner to which we humans are accustomed to in the Real World. Also, they don’t balance spectrally in the stereo domain in the tracking, one pulls more than the other because of this.

Your gtrs are the weakness to the illusion which nobody has so far illuded to. Next is the keyboard because that’s as dry as hell in the tracking and necessitates even more diligence. Once you sort out your stereo domain to reflect more in the way of Nature (3D), you should find the vocal will be fairly easy to position in the scheme of things.

The drums are a whole discussion in their own right, for a number of technical reasons. But if I have to hear the needless stick count again, I’ll go insane.

By the way, by “plural”, I meant “more than one”. You’ve incorrectly assumed I used 2. It’s not really relevant here, but some might think that 2 compressors is the way to go. The only way, of course, is how you need it to go to achieve your goals

I hope this helps

[Roy]

Meh, I think it sounds fine. Monk is right about the depth but I don't know how that translates to the average listener. V3 is a definite improvement over V1 which is the most important thing.

I also agree about the click at the top. This has been getting on my nerves lately, especially with this song. I get that some people want to create or keep a live feel by leaving the count in but sometimes I just lose interest by the 3rd click. At least this mix doesn't contain the whole "we're at telefunken studios..." intro. I'm not a busy man but let's cut to the chase.

But what do I know? I think I used 6-8 compressors on the vocal in this mix.

[Rook]

Thanks Monk and RoyMatthews. My very first instinct on this track was to deverb the guitars and deal with the issue of space. Those springs drove me nuts. But going down that rabbit hole didn't produce the results I desired. I probably should have continued the fight but decided to focus on the individual elements…..and this will obviously NEVER produce a professional sounding mix. I am happy to walk away from this one with that principal reinforced. Catch you on the next thread.

[Roy]

I dunno. I need to listen again but I think it's an ok mix. If I were the band I'd be happy. I'd have some notes but it'd get sorted. Yeah, there's another level of depth that the mix could have but it's not bad at all. Don't get discouraged.

My only advice is never 'fight' the mix. If you're fighting it you're not in control of the situation. Work with what you're given. If you can mold that how you want then great. If not, then you're just going down a rabbit hole which, by definition is a folly.
It's a stew. Cook with the ingredients you have. That said, this is the time and place to chase those rabbits and learn and adapt and try new things. Never forget that. You've gotten some good feedback here so far and the mixes have gotten better. This should be a safe place to learn and try new things. It's not always easy to deal with criticism but try to go through it all and try to hear what they're hearing and take away the positives and throw away the negatives.

Sorry to rant...

[Mixinthecloud]

Your last mix is really close. the only thing that bothers me is the snare. It overwhelms and it takes over every aspect of an otherwise excellent mix. I believe it could be brought back significantly yet still maintain a good place.