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Mix by Zbat (me)
#1
Hi all,

First time posting here Big Grin I'm a originally a musician but want to become a producer so learning everything from song writing to recording and mixing.

I've been learning how to mix for about 6 months now. I mainly use Logic Pro which I love as I use my midi piano a lot, program drums, keyboards etc.

I liked this song because there's a bit of a Jamiroquai vibe at the beginning and tons of options given there's so many mics / tracks. So had a blast!

I have attached my version of the mix, I would love to know what you think and what I can do to improve in the future!

Some stuff about my mix: I am not a massive fan of the backing vocals during the chorus and even with the reference mix I struggled a lot on how they would bring something to the song, I tried putting them behind with reverb but it sounded a bit muddy and the chorus had less impact, so I "kind of" tried to have a bit of a "boxy" sound like question / answer from the lead vocal and the other one. I did not push it that far but think kind of the new metal vibe where you would have a sentence or a scream with a "phone" voice.

Other thing, very difficult to get anything out of the kick, not sure if it's a gain issue while the drums were tracked but even with the EQ it felt either too round / muddy or very smacky (is that a word) almost / sometimes clipping, so I "cheated" and added a sample behind to get a heavy bottom (electro bump GP in Logic FYI) sound behind and use the attack from the mic, compressed to get consistent hits and some more attack.

! I'd be super curious to know if other people struggled with the kick and if they managed to get a good sound out of the tracks and how they achieved it?

Same with the snare, I wanted a bit more balls so I used a trick, I duped the snare bottom, compressed it heavily and used a pitch transformer to get it 5 semi tones down, also this one sent a fair share to an aux with a distortion pedal and a reverb so it almost acts like it's triggering some pink noise (a bit 80s style).

During the guitar solo, I would have removed the reverb on the guitar as it feels like the guitar is behind but it was recorded like this so had to automate a bit the volume and EQ to get it a bit closer but am not super sure about the results.

Had the keyboard on one side and guitar on the other to get some width.

Lots of other tweaks but that I think covers the main things.

Thanks a lot,
Quentin


.mp3    The Brew FINAL.mp3 --  (Download: 4.43 MB)


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#2
Greetings, Quentin!

First of all, welcome! Really nice mix, considering you've only been learning for a matter of months, seems like you have a good ear.

Really nice punchy rhythm section. The drums and bass sound great together.
I like the idea of pitching the snare to add fatness, however it adds this slight phaseyness to the snare which is a little distracting to me. I know it's quite a controversial subject, but I wouldn't consider using samples to be "cheating". It's basically commonplace in radio rock/pop like this. The way I look at it, if something sounds better, it sounds better. Doesn't matter if you used samples, doesn't matter if everything is natural, doesn't matter if you spend 3 hours fine tuning a part, or 10 minutes. So with the snare, I'd say don't be afraid to blend in a ballsy sample to get the sound you're hearing in your head, the same way you have with the kick.

Overall I think the vocals sound great. Maybe some automation on delays towards the end of a few lines might sound cool to add a bit of wetness. And those backing vocals in the chorus, I'm not sure what I'd do with them either. I think you're getting somewhere with the slight filtering and that. I'd maybe go a bit further with the effect so it sounds more bold and not just different.

Not much I can say about the guitars and keyboards other than possibly panning the solo towards the centre if it doesn't sound like too jarring of a change. Otherwise, they sound good to me.

But as always, so much of this is taste, and we're all still learning too. Really like the mix though, nice one!
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#3
Hey Pasta Big Grin

Thanks a lot for welcoming me, taking time to listen to the mix and providing feedback, this is gold!

Glad you liked the overall mix.

Oh yeah for the snare, I hear the phaseyness now, thanks! I'll play around with a sample to add the balls.

For the samples, I was afraid it would kind of kill this live energy, I like live takes, the energy that comes with it, the bleed and (slight) imperfections etc. although these guys play absolutely perfectly! Part of my mind was like "that's the way his/her kick sounds" but then yeah you're absolutely right, if it sounds good, it sounds good. Also I am originally a drummer ahah

I've seen also bands combining acoustic drums with drum machines, there's a new wave of psych garage bands really good at it but I also used very produced albums as a reference for this mix like Jamiroquai's "A Funk Odyssey" and Phoenix's "Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix" or bands like Ratatat which really inspired me when I saw them, but their albums are an incredible in terms of width (using panning, reverb, volume automation...) very trippy and surrounding.

Awesome for the vocals! I will play with automating the delay (awesome idea).

Solo in the middle of course!

That's great stuff! Thanks again.

Quentin
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#4
Yeah, no worries!

It's funny you mention those bands bringing back that combination of drum machines and live kits, I've been really into that sound lately and even tried giving it a go in one of my recent mixes. I also started as a drummer and I absolutely love a really great performance too. But I think it's also because I'm a drummer that I sometimes want them to sound like way more than what they are haha. Depending on the song, of course, but I often have to rein myself in Big Grin

I've actually never listened to a Ratatat before, I have to check them out.
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#5
Nice! Yeah that's it there's a line between enhancing a good live performance and replacing the drummer all together ahah

One thing I have been trying out (although it works best when tracking with a click preferably with a good drummer) is parallel compress the drums (either kick + snare or everything together but less of the overheads and EQ them so that it's contained) + distortion (to your taste) and it can really add that punch you'd get with a drum machine.

Back when I was in a band we experimented a lot with pedals (fuzz, overdrive, distortion but also delay, phase etc.) so we'd have keyboards going through pedals, then we tried vocals, even drums etc. it's really fun to experiment with this. When we recorded our latest EP the sound engineer re-amped the drums. So you record the drums, play them through an amp and record them again. If you have the luxury of having an amp and mic it's really cool to do, or you can use the amp plugins. What I find really cool is that I've tried so many "wrong stuff" (guitar through bass cab, vocals through guitar amp etc.) as a musician that I am happy experimenting anything at the moment ahah.

Ratatat are awesome but it's very particular, there's no vocals and the drums are programmed, they play a lot with guitar harmonies and / or keyboard harmonies which give a huge width to everything they do. They replicate it on stage + use visuals like you're at Woodstock on acid ahah (slightly off topic). As far as their mix goes they are really good at closing / opening the mix between verse and chorus which makes it interesting (I can get bored easily with electronic music). An example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlcywgEMuGI
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