You Know Better - HB Mix

[HbGuitar]

Mixed this on Christmas Eve/Day so was feeling very festive. Had a quick today listen before posting and made a couple of small changes here and there.

(This version, 1.0, for feedback thanks Mike.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New version, 2.0 posted below. Same overall vibe but with a few changes under the hood.

[Mixinthecloud]

I might consider EQ'ing the reverb return on the drums and bass to drop the low and high end there some. It may help tighten up an otherwise excellent mix.

[HbGuitar]

I might consider EQ'ing the reverb return on the drums and bass to drop the low and high end there some. It may help tighten up an otherwise excellent mix.

Hey MITC, thanks for listening. I think that you're spot on. The bottom end could do with tightening. I've done a quick EQ fix on the bass that cuts the subs and boosts upper harmonics. It seems to be heading in the right direction. I'll fine tune it and incorporate once i get feedback from Mike.

Cheers, Simon

[loweche6]

Hey man,

The biggest thing I found is that your vocal sounds a bit pinched. I think there may be a bit too much low end, and maybe a bit much of a cut around 2-3k? It seems as if it is masking itself, if that makes any sense. It's warm, but I think it's missing articulation.

Maybe the piano is a little too stagnant in terms of volume throughout?

The cymbals maaaaaaaay be on the harsher side of bright, but that is something I definitely wrestled with this track, so take that with a grain of salt.

I really liked the space of everything, I just didn't "see" the vocals as compared to the other instruments. Maybe all you need is to bring it up a few dB?

Nice work!

Draper

The bass is pretty subby, but that works with the style.

[HbGuitar]

Hey Draper - thanks for dropping by, 'ppreciate your comments.

Some great points....its easy to get lost sometimes and ones brain starts hearing things the way we want rather than the way they are. Will dig into the vox. I'm always conflicted about where to place the level but i think that you're right and that a dB or two boost wouldn't harm plus maybe some subtle EQ shaping.

cheers. Simon

[Mike Senior]

Hi HbGuitar! The basic balancing here is pretty decent, as I see it. Even on my Avantone single-driver midrange speaker the levels all seem to stack up well, with nicely managed vocal levels, good bass tranlation, and the sense that interesting details are being ushered forward subtly in the gaps between vocal phrases to keep me entertained. The long-term mix dynamics are also pretty good -- only towards the end of the Outro did I feel that maybe the mob vocals could have been balanced a little higher to bring out more of the party atmosphere, but that's a pretty small niggle. Some more assertive automation of effects could have improved the section contrast, though, so that'd be something worth still focusing on some more. In particular, the strong reverb/modulation widening of the vocal effects at the outset makes the singing feel a little too obviously produced to my ears, which I think slightly undercuts a sense of emotional immediacy from his performance. Maybe it's just a case of putting a bit more predelay on the vocal effects and rolling off some high end.

The sound is fairly ambient overall, though, and I do get a sense that we're losing some clarity as a result. As you're probably already aware, I have a natural inclination towards clearer and drier mixes, so this critique point is of course partly a question of my own personal preferences, but even taking that into account I think you could still do a bit more EQing of effect returns to clear a little more room for dry details. A touch less of the drum room in the mix would also probably help too, as that's a little bit murky by nature, and you could also cut some 150Hz from the mix as a whole, as there's a bit of a build-up of energy in that range that makes things sound slightly woolly. One small thing that also niggles me about the depth axis is that the conga feels rather upfront compared with the drum kit and lead vocal, and I'd probably add a bit of ambience to that myself to sit it back a little further. And, speaking of the congas, there's a strong pitched resonance from the lower drum around 210Hz, and that seems to me to distract from the pitch line of the bass when it appears. If that bothers you too, it's easy to notch down with EQ to a less obtrusive level. I wonder too whether the cymbals are a touch harsh in the 3-4kHz zone. I noticed it particularly at the beginning of the Reintro and during the Mid-section, and the latter section in particular masks the vocal more than is ideal, I reckon.

I like your guitar sounds in general and the variety of the effects you've used on them. I'd maybe work your fader automation a little harder for those parts, though, especially in Verse 2 where some of the lower-level notes feel like they're not getting quite enough love. The rising line into the Outro did get a touch piercing, and I suspect that it's a result of a resonance peak around 2.6kHz, so try notching in that zone to see if that smooths it out. The whistle tracks definitely appealed to me during the Outro: wide enough to stick out, but ambient enough not to dislocate entirely from the mix as a whole.

It sounds like you've already engaged somewhat with the lead vocal's low-frequency vagaries, and I think that's reflected in the overall solid vocal balance I'm hearing. Lyric intelligibility is also good, which speaks of either careful dynamics processing, or sensitive automation, or both. I reckon I might trade in a bit of the 100-200Hz range for a fraction more energy at 1kHz, which will help bring the vocal forward a little and give slightly more robust projection on smaller speakers, which I think would be a benefit from a mainstream market perspective.

The stereo spread is good, but not quite as mono-compatible as I might like. It's not that anything disastrous happens to the balance, but the choruses in particular seem a little bit dull and lacking in 'air' in mono. It sounds to me as if it's the Hammond and the vocal widening effects that are probably most responsible for this impression, so I wonder whether a little adjusting of either or both of those using an MS EQ to even up the Mid and Sides tonality might improve matters there. Obviously there's always going to be a trade-off, but I suspect there may be a better compromise to be had in this case.

Overall, though, this is already a very respectable mix. For all its confident handling of the provided resources, though, I do wonder whether it's a bit 'safe', for want of a better word. Maybe it's just because I've trawled through dozens of mix versions by now, but there's a danger that this mix might get overlooked in a competition environment because there's nothing that really sets it apart from the crowd -- and particularly from the small handful of other mixers here who've already displayed similarly high-level balancing chops. So my final word here would just be to consider whether there's some little spice you can put in that'll cement your version more in the memory and give it the edge when it comes to judging time.

Hope some of that helps! Thanks for posting your version for us all to learn from -- and also for your continuing commitment to providing helpful feedback for other Discussion Zone users!

[HbGuitar]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your detailed and constructive comments

...the strong reverb/modulation widening of the vocal effects at the outset makes the singing feel a little too obviously produced to my ears...

Agreed. I think i took mainstream to mean pop so went down that produced vibe route....definitely think more intimate would be an improvement

The sound is fairly ambient overall, though, and I do get a sense that we're losing some clarity as a result.

guilty as charged M'Lord. Tracked down the culprit....i was test driving a new fangled stereo enhancer plug-in during mastering and may have been a bit over judicious. There's a fair difference in clarity between my original mix down and the "enhanced" master, with quite a bit of smearing going on that may, in part, be a cause of some of the general ambience and vox fx problems that you've pointed out

For all its confident handling of the provided resources, though, I do wonder whether it's a bit 'safe'...

I was waiting for that....as i felt the same

So my final word here would just be to consider whether there's some little spice you can put in that'll cement your version more in the memory and give it the edge when it comes to judging time.

Great advice.

Hope some of that helps! Thanks for posting your version for us all to learn from -- and also for your continuing commitment to providing helpful feedback for other Discussion Zone users!

It helps big time. Thanks for all your efforts!

cheers, Simon

[Olli H]

Sounds pretty good and balanced to me.

Here’s some things to ponder for your second version:

As the kick has long tail and quite bright attack - and happens to hit in 2 and 4 - it sounds like a huge snare

Around 1:37 rhthm becomes a bit messy, maybe caused by long tails and cymbals

Around 1:50 there is bluesy conversational guitar. Discussion might work better if it had about same fullness as it’s counterpart, the vox.

Around 2:13 start a chorus. With some automation you might make the change a bit bigger. Now it remains in the same energy level as the verse before it. Also the vox feels a bit shy around there.

[thedon]

Hey Simon ,
Nice Balanced mix I like the ambient sound ,The drums have some resonant frequencies I'm guessing being enhanced by the room and being picked by all drum mic's and some ringing at 171hz and 224 hz which sounds like are being enhanced by the effects.
As already mentioned which maybe contributing to a little build up of frequencies in the low end.
The cymbals maybe masking the air of the vocals around 3-5k.

Just some thoughts on a great mix .
Cheers
Don

[HbGuitar]

Sounds pretty good and balanced to me.

Here’s some things to ponder for your second version:

As the kick has long tail and quite bright attack - and happens to hit in 2 and 4 - it sounds like a huge snare

Around 1:37 rhthm becomes a bit messy, maybe caused by long tails and cymbals

Around 1:50 there is bluesy conversational guitar. Discussion might work better if it had about same fullness as it’s counterpart, the vox.

Around 2:13 start a chorus. With some automation you might make the change a bit bigger. Now it remains in the same energy level as the verse before it. Also the vox feels a bit shy around there.

Hi Olli,

Thanks for taking the time to listen and give feedback. Some great points.....Will take on board as i work on version2.

cheers,

Simon