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Revo X, How Loud Can You Go? - by Olli H
#1
Normally I try to keep a dynamic range around 9-14 dB. I just don't like loud music. That alone was a good enough reason to educate my conservative mind. So I wanted to test what is the loudest mix I can make before I start to vomit.

For reference I took Foo Fighters. In some of their songs the dynamic range is about 5 dB. That is to say: ridicilous. But I have to admit they can make it sound quite good although the level meter does not jump at all.

I really did my best to reach the 5 dB dynamic range. Well, it's not mixers duty alone to go that loud level, but I played also the role of the mastering engineer at the same time. In some parts of my mix the the dynamic range meter really stops jumping and stays around 5 dB. New experience to me.

So my apologies to Buitraker that I decided to abuse their song for this test to learn something new. (I do like the song very much, and I think the loudness is natural part of this genre.)

So what's your opinion, to vomit or not to vomit?

EDIT 1 : new loud version added (revox-loud2-olli-h.mp3)

EDIT 2 : new version with normal dynamic range added (revox-DR-10dB-olli-h.mp3)

EDIT 3 : comparison version added. Parts of the both versions at the same RMS level


.mp3    revox-loud-olli-h.mp3 --  (Download: 10.26 MB)


.mp3    revox-loud2-olli-h.mp3 --  (Download: 10.26 MB)


.mp3    revox-DR-10dB-olli-h.mp3 --  (Download: 10.26 MB)


.mp3    revox-comparison.mp3 --  (Download: 2.38 MB)


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#2
I don't know Olli... I think that you should keep it in the usual range and if someone wants to hear it louder and burst his own ears, let him turn up the volume of his ipod or stereo. I want to keep mine safe so I can keep on mixing Wink
mixing since April 2013
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#3
Its an interesting topic Olli. I know a master engineer who can master extremely loud, and somehow still create the illusion that there are dynamics left. I dont know how he does that, but its an artform. My politic in the master department is I raise the limiter till I think it sounds squeezed and then back off a bit. Not very bright or revolutionary but thats how i do :-)
I´ll hopefully get a chance to listen to your mix soon and comment on how it translate to my ears.
Old ears, old gear, little boy inside love music and sounds and my wife, not necessarily in that order
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#4
Sounds ok to me,the mix could have a bit more space and the vox up a bit
The backing vox are very low.There seems to be a fair bit of build up in the middle
and the vox are having a struggle to cut
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#5
The bass and low mids seem to overpower everything a bit, might be because of the mastering you did. By limiting that hard you push down the peaks and bring up the decay of bassdrums and bassguitars and stuff
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#6
Thanks for listening, everybody.
I wanted to fix some of the problems you mentioned. So there 's a new loud2 version now in the first post.

I fixed
- some mud problems
- vocal level
- opened limiter just a little bit here and there
- changed the bass compression

I tried to keep the sound balance somewhat similar to Foo Fighters, where there's lot of low mid range (but no mud).

I' planning to do another version with with a 9-14 db dynamic range. I try to keep the frequency balance, levels and sound similar to version 2, but I'll let the transients breath and so on.
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#7
(11-09-2013, 07:37 PM)Voelund Wrote: Its an interesting topic Olli. I know a master engineer who can master extremely loud, and somehow still create the illusion that there are dynamics left. I dont know how he does that, but its an artform.

That's very difficult and certainly needs special tools and talent. Foo Fighters had the illusion of dynamics although the meters were not moving.

I couldn't do anything just by "mastering". It sounded totally awful when I reach 7 dB dynamic range. Then backed off with mastering limiter andd I added plenty of limiters here and there to some tracks and busses. But that's not mastering, it's just poor man's cheap tricks to imitate the sound of talents.

It would be very intersting here some real life examples of big hits:
mixers unmastered version / mastered version. I haven't found any where examples. Most of the time we are comparing our own unmastered mixes to mastered cd versions. And there's a danger to learn wrong kind of mixing habbits.

(11-09-2013, 07:37 PM)Voelund Wrote: My politic in the master department is I raise the limiter till I think it sounds squeezed and then back off a bit. Not very bright or revolutionary but thats how i do :-)
Sounds very familiar to me. Smile I'll do just the same, and probably will do it also in future, after this test is done.

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#8
you can pay a lot of money for mastering,but most of the power and volume are in the mix in the first place
when mixed by top mixers
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#9
I made the another version, where I aimed at 10 dB dynamic range (DR10). Dynamic range varies between 8-14 db. (Added to first post. revox-DR-10dB-olli-h.mp3 . It's a pity that those file names don't line up correctly with the player)

Only thing that I did is that I changed the limiter and compression settings on those tracks and busses where I had used them quite heavily. So exactly the same EQ settings everywhere. I tried to make it so that the audible level of that track remained about the same. I didn't touch faders at all, except with background vocals.

In the last version compressors where taking only 0-4 dB here and there. Limiters where doing the same, but only very small moments. So very moderate settings everywhere.

After that I got two versions. DR 5 and DR 10.
I put those tracks side by side and reduced the level of DR5 version -4.6dB so that RMS level of those tracks were the about the same in main verse.

The comparison version jumps from version to another. (Added to first post, revox-comparison.mp3) Huge difference is in the low end. DR 10 version sound much stronger. DR5 version sounds flatter in many places.

This is just my quick test and id do know that it doesn't prove anything. If someone else did the same kind of test, the results could be different. But it was fun to do. Well, maybe this test proves, that I don't have the needed skill to do decent DR5-mix. Meanwhile I'll continue to do DR10 and DR12 mixes.
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#10
I will agree with takka on this one, the volume and the rms lvl comes mostly from the mix it self.
For example if you mix your instruments individually loud, mostly eq wise when the drums drop the instrumentation it will not go dip down.
Offcorse automation plays a big part for it.
For my experience so far i can say eq ing and making space for everything is the most difficult part of a mix and need a lot of practice, to some point "master it".
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