Trafficker: 'My Father Never Loved Me' kapu mix

[Monk]

Tried

mix2
I fell out of my chair laughing. The reverse vox caught me well off guard!

Not a lover of kicks that are out of context with the rest of the song, but if it excites you and it's what you were looking for, then I think you can safely tick that box as a job well done. The perception I have of the kit is that it's been stretched forwards, with the hihat and cymbals somewhere at the back of the room, and the kick about an inch from my nose. The kit needs to come forwards though, I can agree on that, and I can also agree the room appearing too prominently in the overheads limits the scope. A compromise would make me happy.

Thought the vocal would benefit from a more forward delivery. And preferably in front of the kick for me.

I also found the huge distortion artifacts from the kapu crush, pretty darn fatiguing. Though reading around since participating, some might say fatigue is a taste thing! How on earth can you stand mixing it this way?

[kapu]

sound simply awesome and superb!!1

thanks! i guess that kick missed by an inch, because i kinda like the smashed in-your-face sound especially for beats. i appreciate your effort, yet it feels like you're trying to push your own aesthetics. i, for instance, like to smash, crush, clip, limit, compress, pump etc. they're just one set of tools in the wicked box of unnatural audio sorcery, like microphones, preamps, converters and recording medium, level faders, weird effects, reverbs etc. for me it has never been about 'loudness', but for some reason that kind of sound just makes me 'feel it' or something. if i start work on something i end up smashing everything without 'comparing' or 'referencing' how loud it should be, and tend to find high dynamics (peak-to-rms ratios) distracting, uncomfortable or just unsatisfying. at any listening level. smashed sound is the sound i'm pursuing, which should be pretty obvious. if you have some advice how to improve on that, it would be much better than you trying to somehow debunk the mixes for not matching your interpretation of 'correct'. that's just not very helpful. some years ago i tried the 'realistic' approach, but mostly it just felt boring or dull. even if recording is done very well with sound stage in mind etc, in general it usually very far away from how i would like to hear or feel it.

it's quite simple to mix the distorted sound. i just use distortion. in additon to all other mixing stuff i apply a ton of comp/limit/sat/dist type of effects, then i roll them back until i think it start sound good.

p.s. if you listen the mix backwards, you will get the reversed part 'unreversed' and hear lyrics.

^_^

[kapu]

added 3rd mix with some reverb. ^_^

[Monk]

it feels like you're trying to push your own aesthetics. i, for instance, like to smash, crush, clip, limit, compress, pump etc.

There's a time and a place though. It needs to work within the concept. I've messed with this blokes vocal as an experiment, for example. I hate it because it sounds like an amateur's arrangement and recording, as if he can't sing on time in the DT. I wanted some time shifting in my vision, but this is actually too extreme for my needs. It sounds shit to me. Nobody has commented one way or the other, such is this awesome educational forum, lol.

Now, I've never heard Frank Sinatra's vox flipped. Never heard distortion either, all of his work is silk to my ears. However, drop some Skinny Puppy, or Aphex Twin and it's a different kettle of fish. It's about applicability within the conceptual delivery.

We can have a drum kit where an illusion puts the cymbals 30 feet behind the kick, and the kick is way out in front of everything else, and the toms panned hard left and right as wide as a bus. But does this image fit the concept? What about ambiance clash? Placement, depth, localisation, masking? We can call it art, but there are values and expectations nevertheless. As mixing engineers, we ignore them at our peril. But if it's only ourselves we are seeking to satisfy, then who cares anyway, nobody is going to die. But if it's an artist who's livelihood rests on our approach, then look out, we will only get it wrong once!

If you can only do the things you need to do with any mix, irrespective of genre and it's applicability, I'm not sure how we can help one another.

[kapu]

There's a time and a place though. [...]

thanks for your thoughts. there are things, like the bass being slightly out of tune etc, which i would have try to 'fix' before 'post', but in the end in think site offers just opportunity to try to make to most out of source tracks. btw, i did try to provide a more dynamicish headroomish alternative mix on the lingua funga thread based on your opinions, but ended up slightly reproducing the track also. so even if you didnt directly help, you provided the inspiration. also, while doing that i referenced frank sinatras l.a. is my lady, so i have at least some ears for 'proper' music/sound too. but cant help enjoying smashing thing. ^_^

[axxessdenied]

I think mix 1 would be pretty cool if you brought the vocals up a touch and balanced the guitars and bass a bit better (maybe more low mids in the guitars for dat oopmh). Cool stuff

[kapu]

I think mix 1 [...]

good ideas. probably would work, but unfortunately i don't have the first version as daw session anymore, so i can't test this. ^_^

[Laurence Bush]

Good stereo imaging, but the guitars are on the dull side. Interesting revered audio in the middle!! Kick is nice and prominent throughout the track, but it could be said it takes the forefront quite a lot instead of leaving it to the guitars and the guitar solos. Gritty guitars definitely working though!

[kapu]

Good stereo [...]

thanks for listening. i kinda deliberately put darker tone to main guitars and only slightly brighter for fill guitars. mainly because i thought they had quite nasty upper mids. also, i left the solo out completely because i just liked the riffs better. but still, point taken. ^_^

[kapu]

added new version. ^_^