Crownoise Hammer Down!

[crownoise]

Hey! greetings from Sweden. Wow what a song i really love it, hope you like my mix of Hammer Down. I would love some critics so please comment what you think Thanks see you!

[matiasgodoy399]

It has a lot to improve but you are clearly on a good way Crownoise. Vocals sit well, drums and bass keep the rhythm solid. Guitars are just skinny, try not cutting mids, only some notches on mid high range between 4-7 kH, on a couple annoying frequencies, and that should do it. Also the mix needs more space, add reverbs and mid-side compression for gaining stereo field.

[crownoise]

It has a lot to improve but you are clearly on a good way Crownoise. Vocals sit well, drums and bass keep the rhythm solid. Guitars are just skinny, try not cutting mids, only some notches on mid high range between 4-7 kH, on a couple annoying frequencies, and that should do it. Also the mix needs more space, add reverbs and mid-side compression for gaining stereo field.

Okay thanks a ton for the answer ! I see now when im listening back to it that i might have spared the guitars to much midrange as you say, i was mixing very late and you know how things can be one way in the night and one way in the morning Yes i though about space too, only thing is im mixing on quite cheap headphones so im afraid to add too much incase i would drench the mix, thanks again.

[Astrovader]

Good mix crownoise, but the guitars are a bit weak. I think your high cut is a litte to hard and your mid scoop too. If you change this it would sound a little bit more massive. And the reverb on the vocals is to loud, just make it audible but not straight noticeable. The last tip i can give you is to make the last synth much quiter, it's just to loud
Keep on improving

[Blitzzz]

Hey crownoise,

thx for mixing our song. The guitars sound kinda strange/boxy compared with the original mix, and the snare has also a weird boxy reverb that is kinda distracting - which is also true for the boxy vocal reverb, especially in the chorus.

After reading your comments I think your biggest problem is your monitoring situation, and I´m afraid that there is nothing that you can do other than to buy proper monitors or at least highend headphones and use them together with sonarworks reference. I think that this move would instantly reveal you all the problems of your mix and will help you a lot to get better mixes in the future.

Just out of curiosity: Did you use the mastered version as a reference and read my FAQ before mixing this song?

Hope that helps - have a great day and keep up the good work
Dirk

[crownoise]

Good mix crownoise, but the guitars are a bit weak. I think your high cut is a litte to hard and your mid scoop too. If you change this it would sound a little bit more massive. And the reverb on the vocals is to loud, just make it audible but not straight noticeable. The last tip i can give you is to make the last synth much quiter, it's just to loud
Keep on improving

Yes don't know why i had that synth so loud in the end lol!

Thanks a ton

[crownoise]

Hey crownoise,

thx for mixing our song. The guitars sound kinda strange/boxy compared with the original mix, and the snare has also a weird boxy reverb that is kinda distracting - which is also true for the boxy vocal reverb, especially in the chorus.

After reading your comments I think your biggest problem is your monitoring situation, and I´m afraid that there is nothing that you can do other than to buy proper monitors or at least highend headphones and use them together with sonarworks reference. I think that this move would instantly reveal you all the problems of your mix and will help you a lot to get better mixes in the future.

Just out of curiosity: Did you use the mastered version as a reference and read my FAQ before mixing this song?

Hope that helps - have a great day and keep up the good work
Dirk

Hi Blitzzz!

I see, yes listening back the guitars is a bit dull and low in volume. The reason for the distracting reverb tail must have come from me totally oblivirated the snare with devil loc hahah...

Actually no i did not read it forehand, i will apply this advice for the next song thankyou too and have a great day, i hope i improve as a mixer!

[molonlabe23]

cronoise, your limiter is hitting to hard. I know all to well its hard to match volume from a professional master but one thing that can help you get a little more volume without distortion is to do some gain staging and set everything up at -18dbfs. With your faders at unity gain. The lower you have to drop your faders to compensate for volume the more resolution you lose on the fader. A great plugin for this is HoRnet, which will do automatic gain staging for you. At $5.00 it's a real bargain.

Another thing that will help is to get rid of low and high frequency build up on tracks that don't need it. I'm not someone who high passes everything because others do it it, listen to each track and use a EQ with a analyzer and decide whether or not it actually adds to something to song or takes away from it by making a cut. EQ decisions should be made with your ears and not because some well known producers says he makes X or Y cuts a certain instrument. Getting rid of frequency build up will give you more headroom to work with.

One thing you might want to try to help with the verb sound others have commented on is to put a EQ before it with a high pass up to 350 or 400HZ and low pass about 6k and a small dip around 2k. This will tighten up the verb and it won't be washing around those low and high frequencies causing mudd and smearing.

Lastly try using more automation to help the tracks breath. I have a friend who is a multi platinum and diamond engineer and you would be amazed if you saw his plugin chain, there are not a lot. Only if something has uneven levels will he use a compressor or if there was some masking or a uneven frequency would he use eq and he mixes entirely in the box. What you will see in his mixes is all his faders making hundreds of movements up and down breathing life in the mix. I used to hate doing automation (still do actually), it's so stinking tedious, but he helped me overcome that laziness. My teacher David Franz at Berklee school of Music also pushed me with this.

I will share something with you that John shared with me when I asked him for some advice on a article I was writing towards beginner mixers (I'm not insinuating you are beginner mixer, it good advice for all of us no matter what level):

"You might suggest that beginning mixers start with just the faders and pans and make the tracks work the best they can with no processing at all: once they’ve exhausted those options, then reach for plugins. They should also use the right plugin for the job: if something is too loud, use a gain stage; if something is unbalanced spectrally, use an EQ; and only if a source’s levels are uneven over time should they apply dynamics processing"


Granted he mixed Michael Jackson and the Bee Gees, but that advice can still apply to any genre.

I hope I have given you some useful feedback. I'm far from the engineer I want to be and David once told us in class that the best way to learn is to teach someone else. So take the things that you are solid with, even if you are not a master at it. If you grasp the fundamentals of a certain area take that knowledge and share it with someone else like I am doing with you and try to critique in a positive way that helps others grow and it will help you grow as well by teaching yourself to be a critical listener.

Cheers,

[Blitzzz]

"...and only if a source’s levels are uneven over time should they apply dynamics processing." Well, he never had to mix modern metal, metalcore or anything else in that genre. You won't go far without limiting the crap out of the bass, guitars, vocals, synths or clipping the individual drum tracks to a point where everything sits at 120% most of the time. Sure, you can aim for that 80ies metal sound á la Maiden/Priest, but if you want your mix to sound like a modern production, you probably need to limit, clip and compress a lot of your individual tracks.

And for gain staging, I also mix with faders at unity because it's easier to make adjustments, especially when you mix with a lot of automation like i do. Thanks to limiting/Clipping, most of my tracks end up beeing close to 0 dbfs. Of course I could adjust the output gain of each limiter/clipper on each track to bring it down to -18dbfs, but it's way easier to trim down the input gain of the bus each track is going to. That way I can use the meter on each track to instantly know where it sits in the mix just by looking at the mixer window. I find this much harder when my levels are down at -18dbfs because the resolution of the meter isn't good enough in that db range.

Most of my templates start with the input gain of my 2bus set at -10db (it's super easy to do that in Cubase) and most of my busses are also already setup to work with higher levels on individual tracks.

In the end there is no right or wrong as long as you don't clip the 2bus.

[molonlabe23]

I think you kind of missed the point on that. His advice was towards beginners. On the guitar you don't start shredding up and down the neck until you master the basics and practice scales and learning how to connect them. Same with mixing you should master getting the basic mix and learning the why you should compress or eq first before adding that stuff.

The point here is to learn to listen and start to get mix right before you reach for any plugins. I have listened enough of others mixes where people just throw on a compressor just because they think they are supposed to and haven't even talked with recording engineer or artist to find out that the track might have already been heavily compressed in the recording process or they're using samples that are already compressed. Learn to listen first then if the track needs it.

How many mixes of your songs have you listened to where they didn't pay one bit of attention to your track notes and they compress and eq the hell out of the guitars? Just because they think they have to add a eq without having a specific reason why.

He said don't reach for dynamic plugins unless there are a lot dynamic changes, well obviously in metal there are. I get where your coming from, your focus is on your genre, but a lot of us are working in multiple genres so that is overall good advice and while John is mainly doing country now in Nashville as well as teaching audio engineering at a University he has mixed just about everything, I just mentioned Michael Jackson and the Bee Gees because those were platinum and diamond credits.

Sounds like your gain staging works for you, very cool. and thanks for sharing your process. You also have control over your recording process (not sure if you have time to mix for others as well) so You know exactly the headroom you have to work with. When you work with other peoples projects the gains can be all over the place. Pretty much everything I learned in school and at mixing seminars with pro engineers and some of the great books out there all teach to try to gain stage at -18 DBFS (0 DB on the VU) That doesn't mean you have to stay there, the song and way it was recorded as well as the genre dictate that.

As far as your meter resolution and this is DAW dependent, but if you are gain staged at -18 DB you should be able to be at 0 db on your meter where the resolution is higher. I don't know Cubase, but coming from Pro Tools and now Studio One there are a lot of metering options such at the K system and other options so that your meters can reflect 0 db/ at -18 dbfs. If you are using VU's this defiantly should be the case. Once I'm gained staged at -18 DBFS and set my levels and clip and limit I'm at about -10 DB Peak/RMS. So slightly different process but same destination.

You are very talented and have good ears and a process that works very well for you and as you said there is no one right way, Having the basic foundation is what is important.

Well, he never had to mix modern metal, metalcore or anything else in that genre. You won't go far without limiting the crap out of the bass, guitars, vocals, synths or clipping the individual drum tracks to a point where everything sits at 120% most of the time. Sure, you can aim for that 80ies metal sound á la Maiden/Priest, but if you want your mix to sound like a modern production, you probably need to limit, clip and compress a lot of your individual tracks.

And for gain staging, I also mix with faders at unity because it's easier to make adjustments, especially when you mix with a lot of automation like i do. Thanks to limiting/Clipping, most of my tracks end up beeing close to 0 dbfs. Of course I could adjust the output gain of each limiter/clipper on each track to bring it down to -18dbfs, but it's way easier to trim down the input gain of the bus each track is going to. That way I can use the meter on each track to instantly know where it sits in the mix just by looking at the mixer window. I find this much harder when my levels are down at -18dbfs because the resolution of the meter isn't good enough in that db range.

Most of my templates start with the input gain of my 2bus set at -10db (it's super easy to do that in Cubase) and most of my busses are also already setup to work with higher levels on individual tracks.

In the end there is no right or wrong as long as you don't clip the 2bus.