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James May 'Eliza Jane'
13-04-2017, 10:44 AM
Post: #11
RE: James May 'Eliza Jane'
(12-04-2017 03:40 PM)Max Headroom Wrote:  #2

I think this is about ten posts all in one. Make the most of it doll Big Grin

To me anyway, the mandolin during the introduction really sets the scene for the listener and readies us for the vocal performance. Why isn't it in the spotlight? I think this illustrates the problem with the mix as a whole, the subject of emotion. All the supporting instruments (too many for the task perhaps?) are devouring it's gentility - the luuuuv it's presenting.

I did a search on this JM stub for posts containing the word "emotion". Not one came up! I find this surprising, because all this song is about, is finding it, the emotion, the best way possible, and enhancing it with the tools at our disposal. There's loads of talk about instruments, and levels and compression, and all that nerdy stuff, but nowt on the very basic principles this concept is based.

My advice to you would be to get in touch with your feminine side, and go find it, the emotion, that is. I think your mix will be transformed and JM will have to employ you for ever more!

Watch out for the sustains, of which there's a lot here (obvious statement, sorry!), because they have a habit of masking. The Hammond gets suffocated on occasion, for example. Some might say that's a good thing Tongue

I find this a busy mix, with a lot of elements vying for my attention across the stage. Your intro rightly gave me a clue of what was to follow. Is the song over-represented instrumentally for the concept? Do you know how many things the brain can focus on in a song before it overloads and hits the Goodbye button? What instruments, and when, does this voice need to support it, that emotional delivery thing?

I'm, like, not always sure what you are wanting to give to me, and instead of deciding, you deliver everything? Is it supporting the melody, or is it providing it? Perhaps making some decisions with depth and level and being decisive with the mute button might help thin things out, or spotlight to support the lyric and emotional elements more. I heard things, but I didn't feel. I need to feel this concept, and I think the vocalist certainly wants me too.

I would personally add more presence and definitely a chunk of air to the vocal, it would help bring him forwards of the instruments (and do so without necessarily changing the level directly, depending on the outcome) as well as better define the lyric and help his diction. You'd need to fight the sibilance which will most likely come forth?

Being a long song, we have to work extra hard on retaining interest, which you are aware of. I think with more intensity in some places and less in others, you could make the resultant dynamic which subsequently flows, bring interest and help the emotional element too. Just a little too static for me and then I find myself wondering what to cook tonight.

And hey, you also need to fix the intersample peaks. Back your limiter off and give it more room perhaps. I'd also recommend fixing your room acoustics so you can dial in the bass elements and balance the rest of the mix off of this. I've quickly listened to a couple of previous mixes and they need help. If you can't hear it, you can't fix it and you'll be here forever doing the two-step. Do you think the kick works at 40Hz? According to my bookshelf rig, there isn't a kick. Many consumers won't hear it either so it isn't translating the way it should. I'll leave you with my thoughts, which I do hope you found constructive and informative? It's not an easy arrangement to fix, so please keep things in perspective.

Awesome thanks for the listen and for sharing it with us.
Hi Dave I like your mix ,the vocals maybe a touch compressed I agree with max Headroom with the kick translating on small monitors which i have to also fix and looking forward to hearing her mix Big Grin

Cheers Big Grin


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17-04-2017, 12:47 PM
Post: #12
RE: James May 'Eliza Jane'
(12-04-2017 03:40 PM)Max Headroom Wrote:  #2

I think this is about ten posts all in one. Make the most of it doll Big Grin

To me anyway, the mandolin during the introduction really sets the scene for the listener and readies us for the vocal performance. Why isn't it in the spotlight? I think this illustrates the problem with the mix as a whole, the subject of emotion. All the supporting instruments (too many for the task perhaps?) are devouring it's gentility - the luuuuv it's presenting.

I did a search on this JM stub for posts containing the word "emotion". Not one came up! I find this surprising, because all this song is about, is finding it, the emotion, the best way possible, and enhancing it with the tools at our disposal. There's loads of talk about instruments, and levels and compression, and all that nerdy stuff, but nowt on the very basic principles this concept is based.

My advice to you would be to get in touch with your feminine side, and go find it, the emotion, that is. I think your mix will be transformed and JM will have to employ you for ever more!

Watch out for the sustains, of which there's a lot here (obvious statement, sorry!), because they have a habit of masking. The Hammond gets suffocated on occasion, for example. Some might say that's a good thing Tongue

I find this a busy mix, with a lot of elements vying for my attention across the stage. Your intro rightly gave me a clue of what was to follow. Is the song over-represented instrumentally for the concept? Do you know how many things the brain can focus on in a song before it overloads and hits the Goodbye button? What instruments, and when, does this voice need to support it, that emotional delivery thing?

I'm, like, not always sure what you are wanting to give to me, and instead of deciding, you deliver everything? Is it supporting the melody, or is it providing it? Perhaps making some decisions with depth and level and being decisive with the mute button might help thin things out, or spotlight to support the lyric and emotional elements more. I heard things, but I didn't feel. I need to feel this concept, and I think the vocalist certainly wants me too.

I would personally add more presence and definitely a chunk of air to the vocal, it would help bring him forwards of the instruments (and do so without necessarily changing the level directly, depending on the outcome) as well as better define the lyric and help his diction. You'd need to fight the sibilance which will most likely come forth?

Being a long song, we have to work extra hard on retaining interest, which you are aware of. I think with more intensity in some places and less in others, you could make the resultant dynamic which subsequently flows, bring interest and help the emotional element too. Just a little too static for me and then I find myself wondering what to cook tonight.

And hey, you also need to fix the intersample peaks. Back your limiter off and give it more room perhaps. I'd also recommend fixing your room acoustics so you can dial in the bass elements and balance the rest of the mix off of this. I've quickly listened to a couple of previous mixes and they need help. If you can't hear it, you can't fix it and you'll be here forever doing the two-step. Do you think the kick works at 40Hz? According to my bookshelf rig, there isn't a kick. Many consumers won't hear it either so it isn't translating the way it should. I'll leave you with my thoughts, which I do hope you found constructive and informative? It's not an easy arrangement to fix, so please keep things in perspective.

Awesome thanks for the listen and for sharing it with us.

Thanks Max H, on this awesome postBig Grin. A great effort that I'm very appreciative of, truly! These extended, detailed and brutally honest critiques, are very helpful and when we are lucky enough to receive them, they are great at clearing our heads and resetting our thoughts. This makes us rethink about what we are really doing and what we are trying to achieve. Big Dave @ The_Metallurgist has helped me push myself with similar style critiques.

I have revisited the mix to try and improve things based on your thoughts. I think the improvements make the song much more musical and hopefully more emotional charged. (the magic word"emotion"). But there is still room for improvement. There maybe another attempt yet. I think the song's worth it.Smile

As for my room acoustics, unfortunately like most people, they are what they are, especially with the lower register. With the issues with the bass, my only work around is by learning my room/monitor behaviour as time rolls on. Certainly a compromise but I'm ok with that. Referencing and field testing is also helpful and a necessity for me.
There are people turning out much better mixes than myself, with a much lesser studio space ideal. Despite this and without being too ignorant of these physical constraints, I still believe my biggest Achilles' heel, is with my ears and the space between them. I guess continued practice is my biggest friend here.

Thanks Again Max H for the timely "foot up the backside". Very much appreciatedBig Grin
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17-04-2017, 12:54 PM
Post: #13
RE: James May 'Eliza Jane'
(13-04-2017 10:44 AM)thedon Wrote:  Hi Dave I like your mix ,the vocals maybe a touch compressed I agree with max Headroom with the kick translating on small monitors which i have to also fix and looking forward to hearing her mix Big Grin

Cheers Big Grin

Thanks Don. I have a lot going on with the vox, probably too much, which is showing through. Over processing trying to tame the esses.Confused I have altered the kick. Hopefully it helps.

It would be good if Max Headroom does put her mix up. I would also love to hear it for sure.Smile
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21-06-2017, 07:13 PM
Post: #14
RE: James May 'Eliza Jane'
(12-04-2017 03:40 PM)Max Headroom Wrote:  #2

I think this is about ten posts all in one. Make the most of it doll Big Grin

To me anyway, the mandolin during the introduction really sets the scene for the listener and readies us for the vocal performance. Why isn't it in the spotlight? I think this illustrates the problem with the mix as a whole, the subject of emotion. All the supporting instruments (too many for the task perhaps?) are devouring it's gentility - the luuuuv it's presenting.

I did a search on this JM stub for posts containing the word "emotion". Not one came up! I find this surprising, because all this song is about, is finding it, the emotion, the best way possible, and enhancing it with the tools at our disposal. There's loads of talk about instruments, and levels and compression, and all that nerdy stuff, but nowt on the very basic principles this concept is based.

My advice to you would be to get in touch with your feminine side, and go find it, the emotion, that is. I think your mix will be transformed and JM will have to employ you for ever more!

Watch out for the sustains, of which there's a lot here (obvious statement, sorry!), because they have a habit of masking. The Hammond gets suffocated on occasion, for example. Some might say that's a good thing Tongue

I find this a busy mix, with a lot of elements vying for my attention across the stage. Your intro rightly gave me a clue of what was to follow. Is the song over-represented instrumentally for the concept? Do you know how many things the brain can focus on in a song before it overloads and hits the Goodbye button? What instruments, and when, does this voice need to support it, that emotional delivery thing?

I'm, like, not always sure what you are wanting to give to me, and instead of deciding, you deliver everything? Is it supporting the melody, or is it providing it? Perhaps making some decisions with depth and level and being decisive with the mute button might help thin things out, or spotlight to support the lyric and emotional elements more. I heard things, but I didn't feel. I need to feel this concept, and I think the vocalist certainly wants me too.

I would personally add more presence and definitely a chunk of air to the vocal, it would help bring him forwards of the instruments (and do so without necessarily changing the level directly, depending on the outcome) as well as better define the lyric and help his diction. You'd need to fight the sibilance which will most likely come forth?

Being a long song, we have to work extra hard on retaining interest, which you are aware of. I think with more intensity in some places and less in others, you could make the resultant dynamic which subsequently flows, bring interest and help the emotional element too. Just a little too static for me and then I find myself wondering what to cook tonight.

And hey, you also need to fix the intersample peaks. Back your limiter off and give it more room perhaps. I'd also recommend fixing your room acoustics so you can dial in the bass elements and balance the rest of the mix off of this. I've quickly listened to a couple of previous mixes and they need help. If you can't hear it, you can't fix it and you'll be here forever doing the two-step. Do you think the kick works at 40Hz? According to my bookshelf rig, there isn't a kick. Many consumers won't hear it either so it isn't translating the way it should. I'll leave you with my thoughts, which I do hope you found constructive and informative? It's not an easy arrangement to fix, so please keep things in perspective.

Awesome thanks for the listen and for sharing it with us.

With all of your devotion to emotion with this song, it might be worthwhile pointing out that it might be just about smoking weed.

PreSonus Studio One DAW
on RDS Server with Dante Via (ask for details)
[email protected]


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21-06-2017, 07:20 PM
Post: #15
RE: James May 'Eliza Jane'
Mix 3 is very nice. Everything sounds good. I do feel it may be a bit too narrow in the dynamics though. This song has a plethora of natural dynamics that can be enhanced and I think they get a bit lost in your mix. Take the mandolins. While they can be heard they seem squashed and limited and I don't they or any of the instruments need that. Just some subtle automation of level should do the trick. When the song finished, you can hear how much compression there is and I think it is unnecessary.

PreSonus Studio One DAW
on RDS Server with Dante Via (ask for details)
[email protected]


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22-06-2017, 12:15 PM
Post: #16
RE: James May 'Eliza Jane'
(21-06-2017 07:20 PM)Mixinthecloud Wrote:  Mix 3 is very nice. Everything sounds good. I do feel it may be a bit too narrow in the dynamics though. This song has a plethora of natural dynamics that can be enhanced and I think they get a bit lost in your mix. Take the mandolins. While they can be heard they seem squashed and limited and I don't they or any of the instruments need that. Just some subtle automation of level should do the trick. When the song finished, you can hear how much compression there is and I think it is unnecessary.

Thanks for taking a listen. I don't quite remember what I did with the dynamics with this track, but i'm guessing I will have something to do with // bus compression and pushing it that bit too hard. Listening back to this after some time, I feel that I've missed the mark on this one. With what I've learnt, perhaps a fresh attempt down the track will be the go. Smile
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22-06-2017, 12:40 PM
Post: #17
RE: James May 'Eliza Jane'
Quote:Thanks for taking a listen. I don't quite remember what I did with the dynamics with this track, but i'm guessing I will have something to do with // bus compression and pushing it that bit too hard. Listening back to this after some time, I feel that I've missed the mark on this one. With what I've learnt, perhaps a fresh attempt down the track will be the go. Smile

Isn't that the way it goes? When are things ever finished?

PreSonus Studio One DAW
on RDS Server with Dante Via (ask for details)
[email protected]


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