After chatting with Doug (thx mate!) I made some very minor adjustments which gave the mix a lot more clarity and punch:
- Compressed the low end of the whole mix with a multiband comp (raising the volume by one DB and then compressing it by 1-2 dB)
- compressed the "puffy" region from 200 - 600 by about 2db max, with a medium attack and release
- killed 4k
- Reduced the high shelf boost on each tom by about 2db
- Snare has now a very light compressor with a very fast attack and release to kill some of the poky transients
- kick is down by 1db
- I´m hitting the limiter a bit harder (now sitting at ten dB RMS instead 0f 12-13 dB RMS)
You can listen to my final mix called The Black Crown - Flames_final down below. If you want to compare, there is also my first mix.
Many Thx and as always: Leave me a comment, and I will give my best to comment some of your mixes on this forum.
Many thx and keep on rockin!
Dirk
----------------------------------- Initial Post - 4.4.2017:
Hey boys, hey girls,
I just finished my mix of Flames from The Black Crown. I´ve been working on this song for the last three days with 3-4 hours each day (first day mix prep, second day basic balancing, third day fixing things I didn't like & writing automation).
I tried to work with the original drum tracks but decided to completely replace the drumkit (shells only) with my own samples. I think the result is more than worth it because the drums sound way more powerful now than compared with the samples from the Progressive Kit from Toontrack.
I also went with the DI guitar tracks because it was easier to fix the tuning problems with Melodyne that way (albeit I couldn't get rid of the wrong notes completely). The amp sim is Toneforge Ben Bruce - that thing just always sounds good.
I've mixed this song on my Focal Spirit Pro Headphones with Sonarworks Reference and also used my new Subpac to get the low end right. I also checked the mix on my Adams.
So, hope you like it! As always: Leave me a comment and I will give my best to comment some of your mixes on this forum.
05-04-2017, 02:46 AM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2017, 02:47 AM by dcp10200.)
For me the low end of your mix feels stodgy, it's there but it's flat. There's also a cloudiness in the 200-500 Hz range and 4 kHz is poking out in the guitars just enough for it to be annoying (haul out the JST Desuckulator ). The toms have way to much click to them, in certain fills they sound like hitting a plastic bucket, try sucking some 3 kHz out or just use less of a top end boost on them in general.
Overall it's a balanced mix and the levels are good, I would bring the kick down a touch but otherwise great work on that aspect. Most of the work needed is all about eq balancing and optimizing. Also the samples used here are Toontrack Made of Metal, not Progressive, I thought the same at first but all the gear used here is in the FAQ: http://discussion.cambridge-mt.com/showt...?tid=18254 . Personally I'm not a big fan of the samples you've used, they are good sounding, they just seem over the top attack wise and the snare is just bonking it's way through the mix. Some of this maybe personal preference, take it however you want
Cheers, and hope this helps,
Doug
Ps I've included a quick eq adjustment version of the mix ust to demonstrate what I was talking about more clearly
Mixing is way more art and soul than science. We don’t really know what we’re doing. We do it because we love music! It’s the love of music first. Eddie Kramer
Gear list: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mbox Mini w/Pro Tools Express, Reaper, Various plugins, AKG K240 MKii, Audio Technica ATH M50x, Yorkville YSM 6
Thanks for your feedback! Nice sounding mix. The dry drum sounds might be a bit too forward/present/something like that. Still, easy and convincing listening from start to finish, and ready for final mastering and print if you ask me. ^_^
05-04-2017, 10:05 AM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2017, 10:14 AM by Blitzzz.)
Hey Doug,
thx for the crit. How could I forget to cut 4k - I must have been out of my mind It's funny that you hear the same problems that I had on my mind but was somehow too shy too tackle. The snare has a lot of punch, maybe too much, but I was afraid to reduce the impact with a transient designer because we all know how fast a snare can disappear in a full and dense mix. Still like it the way it is though. Toms probably have too much high end, and the kick could come down by 1db. For my ears, the low end is supertight and kick, bass, guitar and snare are really glued together - maybe that's the reason why you think it sounds stodgy, because no element is really dominating the low end. I´m using TDR SlickEQ on my 2bus for a while now and always use the "match to pink noise" to help me make the mix more linear. It's not much (we are talking about 0.5 to 1db adjustments) but that might be the reason that my low end sounds a bit too plain lately.
Regarding the cloudiness around 200-500hz: I think my version sounds better & beefier compared with your mix. The cut you made is exactly what I try to avoid in my mixes. I think the mix sounds hollow without that beef down there and I hear this kind of hollowness all the time in other mixes on this forum... often to a point where there is absolutely no body/low mids left in the guitars. I always come back to Andy Sneap/Killswitch mixes for reference because I absolutely love the guitar sound and the overall balance. His mixes always have this low mids beefiness and I always try to preserve that, but I must admit that a small cut around 400 hz would probably help the song to gain a bit more clarity.
I probably make a second version tonight and address all that stuff we talked about. Thx doug!
(05-04-2017, 10:05 AM)Blitzzz Wrote: Regarding the cloudiness around 200-500hz: I think my version sounds better & beefier compared with your mix. The cut you made is exactly what I try to avoid in my mixes. I think the mix sounds hollow without that beef down there and I hear this kind of hollowness all the time in other mixes on this forum... often to a point where there is absolutely no body/low mids left in the guitars. I always come back to Andy Sneap/Killswitch mixes for reference because I absolutely love the guitar sound and the overall balance. His mixes always have this low mids beefiness and I always try to preserve that, but I must admit that a small cut around 400 hz would probably help the song to gain a bit more clarity.
I probably exaggerated the cut too much there, all you need really is a 1-1.5 dB cut at the most. I wouldn't normally eq it out but rather use a multiband compressor at 281 Hz, an attack of 16 ms, and a 25 ms release as a starting point, this is apparently what Andy does with his stuff. It basically just pushes down on palm mutes or whenever the low mid area gets too powerful in the mix.
It could be me but I've always heard that 300-400 Hz range as a vacuum cleaner or air escaping through a window but using a conventional eq to scoop it out is often too extreme, dynamic EQs and multiband compressors seem to work for me. Also a trick I've heard from Warren Huart (Aerosmith,Ace Frehley, Korn, The Fray) at Produce Like a Pro is boosting 220 Hz on a Neve style EQ (any eq will be fine really). I'll generally do that and follow it up with that multiband setup to keep it under wraps.
Cheers,
Doug
Mixing is way more art and soul than science. We don’t really know what we’re doing. We do it because we love music! It’s the love of music first. Eddie Kramer
Gear list: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mbox Mini w/Pro Tools Express, Reaper, Various plugins, AKG K240 MKii, Audio Technica ATH M50x, Yorkville YSM 6
05-04-2017, 12:22 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2017, 12:23 PM by Blitzzz.)
Yeah, i was thinking about using Pro MB to clear up that region, with just enough attack (20-30 ms) to let the ear think that the weight is still there before it gets compressed. I think it's a common problem of my mixes lately that I´m too shy to make the right amount of eq cuts in the 200-500hz region on guitars and bass. This is not the first mix this happened, and it's definitely not because my listening environment is giving me a false perspective. No, I somehow like it that way
Just for shits and giggles I'll analyse My Curse with TDR Nova or SlickEQ tonight and use that as a sonic reference. I'm curious to see how far I´m off with my mix in the low end.
After chatting with Doug (thx mate!) I made some very minor adjustments which gave the mix a lot more clarity and punch:
- Compressing the low end of the whole mix with a multiband comp (raising the volume of the low band by 1 dB and compressing it by 1-2 dB)
- Compressing the "puffy" region from 200 - 600 with the same multiband compressor. settings: medium attack and release, 1-2 dB compression)
- I killed 4k
- I reduced the high shelf boost on each tom by 2 dB
- Snare has now a very light compressor (Slate FG-401) with a very fast attack and release to kill some of the poky transients (it's only compressing 1-2dB)
- The kick is down by 1db
- I´m hitting the limiter a bit harder (now sitting at ten dB RMS instead 0f 12-13 dB RMS)
You can listen to my final mix called The Black Crown - Flames_final down below. If you want to compare, there is also my first mix in the first posting.
Many Thx and as always: Leave me a comment, and I will give my best to comment some of your mixes on this forum.
Really can't say much, the new version sounds great! From an aesthetic (cue Macintosh Plus ) point I would probably add a bit of RBass or some LF Exciter to the bass, just to give it a bit more oomph for the choruses and the breakdown, but really that's just me. I did notice a resonance around 900 Hz-1 kHz, that can easily be fixed though in mastering.
Cheers,
Doug
Mixing is way more art and soul than science. We don’t really know what we’re doing. We do it because we love music! It’s the love of music first. Eddie Kramer
Gear list: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mbox Mini w/Pro Tools Express, Reaper, Various plugins, AKG K240 MKii, Audio Technica ATH M50x, Yorkville YSM 6
Hey nice sounding mix. I think you have everything sitting and blending together well.
I do have a few question tho ,being my drums suck on my mixes. I noticed that you have a lot of 4k and up on the kic, snare and toms that seems to not separate them from each other. I would think giving them their own freq bump or cut would give them a little more separation between them. But, this might be what I should be doing? Also, how did you get that big aggressive drum sound?
Great mix!
25-04-2017, 08:23 AM (This post was last modified: 25-04-2017, 08:29 AM by Blitzzz.)
I´m on a business trip at the moment and can`t check what I did with the drums. I know I completely replaced them with samples that I know will work for this kind of music. I think I also made midi tracks from all shells and used them in combination with the GGD rooms to give me fatter room sounds than the ones provided with this track. after that it`s just eq and compression and nothing fancy. the "fatness" of the drums comes from the room tracks though.
I usually dont care to seperate the drums in the upper region. I did a lot of separation in the lower spectrum on this mix because I was trying some ideas from the "Controlling low end" fast track from https://urm.academy/
). The toms have way to much click to them, in certain fills they sound like hitting a plastic bucket, try sucking some 3 kHz out or just use less of a top end boost on them in general. 