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Hammer Down
#1
Dude these tracks are super tight.

Excellent playing and arrangement.

I only added ambiance on the vocal tracks.

I used KSE cover of Holy Diver for a reference mix.

I think I'm pretty close I will have to let this sit for a while.

Feedback is welcome.

UPDATE:
I made adjustments to my room and took Doug and Blitzzz suggestions and tips. I made two versions.

VER_2 Is my mixprint from my S1 session.
VER4 made some minor adjustments to volume levels and some tonal adjustments.

Cheers.


.mp3    HAMMER_DOWN_MIXPRINT.mp3 --  (Download: 11.28 MB)


.mp3    Hammer_Down - HAMMER_DOWN_MIXPRINT_VER(2).mp3 --  (Download: 11.28 MB)


.mp3    Hammer_Down - HAMMER_DOWN_MIXPRINT_VER4.mp3 --  (Download: 11.28 MB)


My Original Music

"One often learns more from ten days of agony than ten years of contentment."

Pro Tools 12.6/Studio One 3 Pro
Studiolive 16 Series III
Yamaha HS5/HS8
Console 1
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#2
Overall it's a decent mix, the balance of instruments is pretty solid (the bass could come down a touch and the synths during the chorus are overpowering). My main gripe here is that it lacks low end, the kick and bass are lacking some of that fundamental beef down in the sub 200 Hz range. I'd try doing a boost at 70 Hz on the kick and a 100 Hz boost on the bass just to bring out the "thunder" in the low end. If you're worried about the kick building up too much during the 16 th note passages split the kick into 2 tracks, a general kick track for the non double kick sections and a "BR00TZ" kick track for the double kick sections. The general kick track would be basically what you have now but with more low end with less click, the other track should be lighter on the low end and have a slightly more exaggerated click sound to it. The double kick could also afford to come down some, during the guitar solo it's almost at the same level as the solo guitar, it seems to be a common feature of your mixes (are you a drummer?).

I've noticed that the bass is a tad inconsistent during certain sections, during the intro, verses, and turnarounds it's solid and clear, but during the pre choruses and choruses it starts to emulate And Justice For All ;P. I'd try using a limiter and compressor with each other so that you have more control over the bass during the track, this will anchor the low end of the mix and give the track the power it needs

I've listened to some of your original stuff and some other mixes you've made, the mistakes you're making here are similar to what's happening on your other material as well, what is your mix environment like and most importantly, how familiar are you with your set up? In my honest opinion it seems like you either aren't comfortable with your set up or you're in a less than ideal space with monitors too powerful for your room. Not trying to insult you at all, I'm just curious. Anyhow, this is a decent starting point for a mix.

Cheers, and hope this helps
Doug
Mixing is way more art and soul than science. We don’t really know what we’re doing. We do it because we love music! It’s the love of music first. Eddie Kramer

Gear list: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mbox Mini w/Pro Tools Express, Reaper, Various plugins, AKG K240 MKii, Audio Technica ATH M50x, Yorkville YSM 6
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#3
Not trying to insult you at all, I'm just curious. Anyhow, this is a decent starting point for a mix.

Cheers, and hope this helps
Doug
[/quote]

I like drums a lot and metal. I am not a drummer, I am a guitarist who also plays piano, bass and sings. I'm not insulted. I think I will listen on another system before I make any real changes though.

I have an excellent set up and I am getting more confident in my mixes.
(take a look at the pictures next time you go to my page)

I just installed beefier bass traps in my only 90 degree corner of my room.
My monitor levels are just over normal conversation level and I have a sub but I try not excite the room with loud levels when making mixing decisions.

There is definitely an arc to my progress over the past year.

The original music spans the past four years.
The synth is the star of the show and should be loud, but I'll check that too.
limiting and compression on the bass is a good idea. I'll focus on the bass when I audition the mix on another system. I already thought that that would be an issue.
I think the kick is actually loud in the solo guitar passage, haha. I thought the lead guitar levels all around deserved to go up a Db. or two. A guess the question is can you hear ever intonation of the guitar during the solo with straining your brain.
I don't like the way the kick drum sounds with a boost at 100 hz. and I actually notched 80 hz. to get rid of unwanted build up.
Idk about having different kick drum for the sections, I mean I get it and having specific parts for dynamic purposes can be a way to make stuff work but then you have to deal with phase issues and what not. I think that if I need to really increase the low end than I can try moving bass guitar up and working with the master bus.

I definitely knew I would have to perform some automation in the long run but I wanted to post this to gain some feedback to help with that decision making process.

This post is too long....
I do believe that this mix is close and some minor tweaking will take it to the next level and I can almost guarantee that most of you evaluation is correct regarding the low end energy. I believe the idea of this song is make it as clean and tight as possible and that can be difficult when there are so many important dynamics. Bass can be the enemy in music like this but also a necessity.
O.K. I've said too much here, but I'll leave you with this.
I value your feedback because I think your mixes are better than most on this site. So thank you.

My Original Music

"One often learns more from ten days of agony than ten years of contentment."

Pro Tools 12.6/Studio One 3 Pro
Studiolive 16 Series III
Yamaha HS5/HS8
Console 1
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#4
Hey Wes,

- Snare is way too loud
- Guitars are too scooped - which is bad because the rhythm guitars drive the song Smile
- The synths are important, but not THAT important. They are way too prominent in your mix, overshadowing everything
- The double bass part is too loud. Easy fix: Use a Low shelf with a -3 db cut around 150hz and automate it throughout the song. every time Dirk Verbeuren plays doublebass you should activate that low shelf and keep the low end build up in check.
- I agree with Doug, the low end isn't really there. Mainly because you cut away way too much beef, especially in the guitars. I think i've filtered out almost all the low end / low mids of the synths for the final mix to make room for kick (70hz), bass (goes down to 40 hz and has dips at 70, 130 and 200 hz for the kick, snare and guitars), snare (punch at 200hz) and guitars (probably 130 hz as far as i can remember)
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#5
(03-04-2017, 04:50 PM)Blitzzz Wrote: Hey Wes,

- Snare is way too loud

Thanks for the specific feedback. Doug was spot on with most of his feedback, I seem to hear a lot of low mid energy from my mix on other systems and I guess I need to address my room acoustics a little more. This is getting frustrating. The kick idea with the HPF is something I just learned about today and then you go and mention it. I'm gonna try everything both you and Doug suggested and see whats up.
My Original Music

"One often learns more from ten days of agony than ten years of contentment."

Pro Tools 12.6/Studio One 3 Pro
Studiolive 16 Series III
Yamaha HS5/HS8
Console 1
Reply
#6
There is a cool snare/kick balance trick I borrowed from Nolly (Periphery):

- Put a compressor on the drum bus (Nolly uses FG-Grey from slate which is perfect for the task)
- use the following settings: Attack = 0.3, Release = fastest, Ratio 4:1
- lower the threshold until a single kick hit is compressed by 1 dB, and a snare hit is compressed by 3 dB.
- If the snare hits for more than 3 dB when the kick sits at -1 dB you have either way too much low end in the snare (which makes the snare hit the compressor harder) or the volume of the snare is simply too loud. Just lower it until it sits at -3db
- If the snare hits for less than 3db raise the volume of the snare until it gets compressed by 3db.

Next step is to balance the bass with the kick. use VUMT or any other VU meter and check how hard a single kick hits the VU meter (put it in solo). Now unmute the bass and let them both play together - the volume should be 3db higher now. That's the sweet spot Smile

Now you have kick, snare and bass in good balance and the rest of the mix is kinda easy.

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#7
Hello Smile

What came to my mind while listening (ver3):

-There is an annoying resonance in the low end.
-Kick is a bit too much clicky for my taste.
-overall it sounds pretty good and fat !

Just my humble opinion this i'm not a pro :p.
Take care !
Mixing with a dt770 for now..
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#8
(05-04-2017, 12:08 PM)Jimdolorian Wrote: Hello Smile

What came to my mind while listening (ver3):

-There is an annoying resonance in the low end.
-Kick is a bit too much clicky for my taste.
-overall it sounds pretty good and fat !

Just my humble opinion this i'm not a pro :p.
Take care !

The resonance may be from the raised noise floor from processing the alleged master.

But that being said, I 'm going to go through (VER_2) one more time and see if I can make it tighter and better.

I don't think I'm going to bother mastering this time because I was already trying to get it perfect during the mixing. I think at that point I over thinking the mix.

Thank you for the feedback and the listen.
My Original Music

"One often learns more from ten days of agony than ten years of contentment."

Pro Tools 12.6/Studio One 3 Pro
Studiolive 16 Series III
Yamaha HS5/HS8
Console 1
Reply
#9
Hey so I listened to version 4 of your mix, and it's really dope! Balance is great, and I can really hear the synths, which I feel like a lot of people's mixes on the forum seem to forget about. I have a couple of nit-picky stuff to point out.

- Guitars are full, but I'm thinking adding a bit more resonance to really expose those palm mutes
- Kick definitely has a lot of clarity, but I wouldn't mind hearing even more low-end
- Snare is just a hair too forward for my taste.
- My main thing is the guitar solo. I felt like it was just too boxy and didn't quite have enough high-mid edge to really cut through over the rhythm guitars.

Even with all that said, I think the mix currently is really solid.

- Nick
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