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First post, here goes nothing...
25-06-2013, 08:17 PM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2013 08:17 PM by cjbee.)
Post: #1
First post, here goes nothing...
Hey all! I've been a fan of Snowmine for a little while now so as you can expect, I was pretty delighted to stumble across the multitrack for this song and give it a whirl. Cool song by a great band.

Cheers!


.mp3   Curfews-ref4.mp3 --  (Download: 7.26 MB)


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25-06-2013, 08:40 PM
Post: #2
RE: First post, here goes nothing...
Glad to have you joining in on the fun. Nice job on the mix Smile

To mix or not to mix ... mix!
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25-06-2013, 08:45 PM
Post: #3
RE: First post, here goes nothing...
Glad to be here. Thanks!
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25-06-2013, 10:37 PM
Post: #4
RE: First post, here goes nothing...
I found vocals need more eq and to bring them up, kick don't be there on most parts and more hi end on the snare would be nice too.I like the vibe you give with your mix though!
Keep up cjbee!
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25-06-2013, 11:04 PM
Post: #5
RE: First post, here goes nothing...
Thanks for the words, gopener!
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09-07-2013, 07:25 PM
Post: #6
RE: First post, here goes nothing...
Great sounding mix overall. I think you captured the vibe very well. A few thing stand out to me the vibes at 0.21 which I understand you wanted them to sit out, but sit out far above everything else and could be reigned in a bit. I agree with gopener about the Eq on the vocal as they seem to be slightly overpowered by the instruments. I like your use of delay on the vocals, a very nice touch which work well on this song.
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16-12-2013, 11:52 PM
Post: #7
RE: First post, here goes nothing...
@cjbee...hi,

i've arrived here from your Like Horses mix. there is a common denominator running in your technique which you might like some feedback on.

the comments regarding this mix, like the vocal not being EQ'd appropriately is actually true, but then again it isn't. if you down-mix the channels into mono, there's actually no problem with the vocal whatsoever, it comes through as clear as anything. indeed, in mono this mix, as with the Like Horses, it all comes over rather well.

however, in stereo things get wiped out and your mix loses detail, especially (but not only) the vocal. the culprit here is actually the reverb. there's so much frequency content from it that it blurs the detail by causing masking. to begin with, i'd recommend you EQ out some of the reverb on future projects, around the 250Hz area with a parametric, with a Q that works for you, and perhaps add a hi pass filter (12dB/octave say) to remove some of the reverb's low end at a frequency that your ears are happy with, as this will help deal with frequencies that cause lack of clarity. leaving the hi-end of the reverb could interfere with the brighter instruments, like the snare's harmonics and overtones, and cymbals etc, so take care on this side too, perhaps rolling off some of the reverb's hi end..

if you run your reverb with pre-sets, be aware that they often need attention to suit your particular specific application, and EQ is often the first thing to check. so too would be the pre-delay and the decay tuned to your particular mix requirements. the longer the delay, the greater the opportunity for frequency masking so don't get too carried away with ear candy would be my best advice here.

check it out and let me know how you get on...
cheers,
BigD, from the Met Lab

Beware...........Cognitive Dissonance!
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17-12-2013, 04:24 AM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2013 04:24 AM by cjbee.)
Post: #8
RE: First post, here goes nothing...
(16-12-2013 11:52 PM)The_Metallurgist Wrote:  @cjbee...hi,

i've arrived here from your Like Horses mix. there is a common denominator running in your technique which you might like some feedback on.

the comments regarding this mix, like the vocal not being EQ'd appropriately is actually true, but then again it isn't. if you down-mix the channels into mono, there's actually no problem with the vocal whatsoever, it comes through as clear as anything. indeed, in mono this mix, as with the Like Horses, it all comes over rather well.

however, in stereo things get wiped out and your mix loses detail, especially (but not only) the vocal. the culprit here is actually the reverb. there's so much frequency content from it that it blurs the detail by causing masking. to begin with, i'd recommend you EQ out some of the reverb on future projects, around the 250Hz area with a parametric, with a Q that works for you, and perhaps add a hi pass filter (12dB/octave say) to remove some of the reverb's low end at a frequency that your ears are happy with, as this will help deal with frequencies that cause lack of clarity. leaving the hi-end of the reverb could interfere with the brighter instruments, like the snare's harmonics and overtones, and cymbals etc, so take care on this side too, perhaps rolling off some of the reverb's hi end..

if you run your reverb with pre-sets, be aware that they often need attention to suit your particular specific application, and EQ is often the first thing to check. so too would be the pre-delay and the decay tuned to your particular mix requirements. the longer the delay, the greater the opportunity for frequency masking so don't get too carried away with ear candy would be my best advice here.

check it out and let me know how you get on...
cheers,
BigD, from the Met Lab
Where were you 6 months ago when I posted this mix? Tongue Haha, I think this was like, the first or second mix I had ever done.

In all seriousness though, I genuinely appreciate the words. Tweaking my FX is something that I've been learning about and applying to my projects over the past few months, and it certainly has helped clear things up a bit, both in the high-end and low-end. On the EMT140 or Bricasti Hall emulations I use in Altiverb, I find that I'm cutting a ton more high end than anything, usually down to 8k, if not sometimes to 5k or more (depending on the mix). High-passing to ~200hz on reverb returns has also become a staple of my workflow and definitely has a substantial impact on low-down clarity.

Another thing I've found handy is flicking on a mid-side plugin on my stereo buss after setting my reverbs to monitor how swampy things are getting just in the side channels, and then comparing to a pro mix to get a relative ballpark idea of how wet the various instruments/vocals, etc. should be.

Anyway -- again: thanks for taking the time to write, BigD. Seriously good advice. Wish all critiques were as articulate as yours! Big Grin

Let's figure this out.
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17-12-2013, 02:29 PM
Post: #9
RE: First post, here goes nothing...
[/quote]
Where were you 6 months ago when I posted this mix? Tongue Haha, I think this was like, the first or second mix I had ever done.

In all seriousness though, I genuinely appreciate the words. Tweaking my FX is something that I've been learning about and applying to my projects over the past few months, and it certainly has helped clear things up a bit, both in the high-end and low-end. On the EMT140 or Bricasti Hall emulations I use in Altiverb, I find that I'm cutting a ton more high end than anything, usually down to 8k, if not sometimes to 5k or more (depending on the mix). High-passing to ~200hz on reverb returns has also become a staple of my workflow and definitely has a substantial impact on low-down clarity.

Another thing I've found handy is flicking on a mid-side plugin on my stereo buss after setting my reverbs to monitor how swampy things are getting just in the side channels, and then comparing to a pro mix to get a relative ballpark idea of how wet the various instruments/vocals, etc. should be.

Anyway -- again: thanks for taking the time to write, BigD. Seriously good advice. Wish all critiques were as articulate as yours! Big Grin

[/quote]

Better late than never, eh? I felt a duty to put you on the right course, despite the time horizon; there's nothing more hazardous than mis-information (without being derogatory to the other thread contributions). Thanks for your update and indeed for you kind words of appreciation. Mid/side? You've done a lot in just 6 months, fantastic.

Something you might also find of value (and others too), especially given where you are in the scheme of things today, is using a low-pass filter to really drill into the low-mid range with some serious fire-power. It's a technique I've found to be invaluable over the years, and still engage it from time to time..... (I hope I'm not teaching Grandmother to suck eggs, apologies if I am...but others may well benefit from reading the post)

....The idea is to start a low-pass with the steepest gradient you have available (like something that can be found on the Cambridge EQ in the guise of the Elliptic 6, but anything that will go upto or beyond 36dB/Octave will suffice). Start at the top of the shop at 20kHz on the Stereo/Master buss, a Group buss, or whatever takes your fancy, but typically you'd use the stereo buss. Now, slowly bring it down, listening critically to the elements of the mix - "all" elements. When you eventually get to around the 500Hz point, say hello to bass! I bet you didn't know it started from here, eh? Taking it further will really show you the low-end detail of your mix in all it's naked glory, AND without the distraction of the higher frequency content which would otherwise get in your mind's way. Is it cluttered and confused? Could you get away with more hi-pass or alternative EQ re-alignment on some other instruments (the voice is an instrument too, don't forget)? Does the mix start to get thin, if so at what juncture? Which instruments could be EQ'd to help retain warmth without muddying up the mix? All good questions to ask yourself while engaging in this activity, I'd say.

You can also do it the other way, of course. Hi-passing as you sweep up slowly through the spectrum...note how unimportant in relative terms, bass is in providing definition of your instruments, and note also where bass begins to drop off - important to those listening to your material on small speakers, ear buds etc.

Don't forget, that you can leave the filter sitting there at 500Hz while you manipulate the EQ of the low-end elements of the important instruments, as this will help guide you somewhat to a more ideal spectral balance.

Note you can get really swanky here and do this job on the side-channel element only, or the Mid/mono element only, or stereo. Now we are talking serious analysis. Do this on reference material too (good to hear confirmation that you actually reference, by the way!) and you will understand a lot more about the detail and how the big guns shape their stuff. They are our mentors!

But getting back briefly to reverb...I strongly recommend you check out Fab Dupont, a man I actually greatly respect for his skill and prowess as an engineer. Look for the ytube video "Creating space with reverbs", it's a snippet from his studio's PureMix video offerings. It's not a perfect presentation by any means, and it's not a cure-all recipe for all occasions nor could one ever be, but the essence of reverb application is presented here for you. Take it further and build on this and you will really dominate.

Most mixers fail miserably because they can't position stuff appropriately in the stereo panorama or the depth field. This will really push you up a few rungs. The main limitation of his presentation is regarding panning of reverb, and whether mono or stereo and situations where each might be more appropriate for example. But this will give you some homework to explore on your own, through trial and error.

Actually, check out anything in ytube with Fab Dupont, as it's really good brain fodder, he's a super presenter too with a great humour. For the sake of transparency, I have no financial motivation in promoting him, so this is a totally impartial recommendation.

All the best meanwhile..kick it on your way into 2014
BigD

Beware...........Cognitive Dissonance!
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