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Quicksand with Mixbus 32C
#1
So i think I may have fallen in love with 32C. . . .The only non mixbus plugin I used was the slate VCC and 1 instance of an Ultramaximizer compressor setting.

Brought the wav into reaper and used Baxter EQ to bring up the sides (it's an M/S EQ) brought the highs in the sides down a touch, used Basslane to mono the bass frequencies, and maxwell smart limiting amp to bring it up in volume.

What do you guys think?

Draper


.mp3    Quicksand faux master.mp3 --  (Download: 6.12 MB)


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#2
Nice work Draper ,sounds like a pretty mix solid here a touch bright in the top end on my monitors.
Missing some bass guitar in the mid bass frequencies, Love the punchy kick could be overpowering the bass guitar a touch maybe around the 50-60hz area.
Well Done Big Grin

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#3
I agree it has a bit too much high end but a pretty good sound.
Good work .
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#4
yo Draper, wassup.

downmix to mono and see what you think about the illusion of depth regarding everything....in terms of reverb application, amplitudes, compression (a form of EQ...), and the subjective distance from the listener. in stereo, you have panned hard but not taken into account i have 2 ears (binaural) and both are used to assess placement; for example, the RH guitar is only on the right side which is impossible in a stereo soundstage.

if you cut EQ on the side channel, and this/these instruments which are placed somewhere on the side but also have content in the mid, you're going to skew the frequency response of those instruments when downmixing to mono - one of the many, many, many issues of M/S which nobody discusses. be aware that ANYTHING you do to one area of the spectrum on the master buss, has consequences on everything else. if your ears are only focusing on your key objective, you are more than likely to not hear the problems being created elsewhere as a result of the change.

one other thing i'd mention; if this was played over iTunes with Sound Check enabled, it would be attenuated by 5.5dB approx against a more dynamic mix, making it sound flat and lifeless in comparison - that's not good for you, and it's certainly no good for the artist(s) marketing department. in the case of iTunes Radio it's running without the user having a choice....and increasingly more services are moving this way too, if they haven't already done so. unfortunately the forum is pretty useless in comprehending dynamics, with most mixes being over or even hyper compressed. as they say...


"If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail"


so much stuff arrives at the MDL with compression fistfully applied, with dynamics smashed and distortion all over the place essentially rendering compression in the mix an obsolete process! but people still grab their compressors like it's an imperative obligation. i know, i've done it.

one important note:
your mix is clipping on the true peak meter, but most mixes posted to the forum clip to a greater or lesser extent - not to say this makes it OK, of course. Don's mix of this song is sitting in a sea of red...pinned interestingly, Takka's a little less so. give your mix some headroom, -1.0dB mastered should be the maximum in order to avoid any distortion over a DAC.


did someone say this song has been mixed by CLA? i can't find any reference to this, the nearest was an interview where only the song "Passing Ships" was mentioned. anyone shed some light on this please? perhaps the horses mouth might be the shortest route.

laters,,,
Beware...........Cognitive Dissonance!
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#5
Quite like your mix. It sounds like a real LCR mix. Really not a fan of this on headphones but sounds better on monitorsSmile
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#6
As always, thank you so much for your comments and input. I do have to admit, I definitely know that this was a loud mix. I typically mix trying to keep my peak vu hitting around -.5db, and my RMS value of my mixes around the -12dB range. I slammed my limiting amp really hard in my mp3 conversion/faux mastering. I rarely try to push my mixes really hard with my limiting amps, but I got carried away with this one (it should be quite easy to bring my faux mastering down, as it was a really simple chain, and it was all ITB).

So here is how I handled my guitars (just to give you insight on his particular mix). I panned the guitars 1-2 main mics at about the 45 degree mark on opposite sides, as I'm sure you all hear. I panned their distance mics hard L and hard R. Sent that to my guitar buss (muting their masters), as well as sending them to a mono buss with a guitar amp plugin on it (a process that I've employed often). I wonder if I have some phase things happening with it, so it is making them sound extremely wide. Maybe I need to change the center channel up a bit and the send to the verb, or bring it up a touch in volume.

When using my mid side Eq, I do try to say within a 1-1.5 dB change, unless I'm clearing out low end from the sides, to try and mitigate weird skewing. Maybe I'll just bypass it.

So I'll address these things and see if I can keep my energy and bring it down to more a dynamic feeling mix (I usually don't try to compete in the loudness war, but I let myself fall prey to the, "Wow, this sounds better when I turn it up" trap [i actually feel a bit embarrassed because of it]).

Maybe I'll post my pure mixbus mix as well to get some thoughts on that.

Thanks again all, I'll give feedback on everyone else's mixes when I have a chance to take a listen on my rig.

Draper
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#7
(11-07-2016, 05:48 AM)loweche6 Wrote: As always, thank you so much for your comments and input. I do have to admit, I definitely know that this was a loud mix. I typically mix trying to keep my peak vu hitting around -.5db, and my RMS value of my mixes around the -12dB range.

a VU meter (the acronym 'Virtually Useless' has some validity!), and RMS are profoundly limited in their application: i can give you 2 mixes where one sounds 'subjectively' much louder and distorted than the other...yet still share the same RMS value. VU has no relationship to loudness, only voltage; a flute won't cause as much as a twitch on a VU, but it can make you deaf Tongue

Quote:I slammed my limiting amp really hard in my mp3 conversion/faux mastering. I rarely try to push my mixes really hard with my limiting amps, but I got carried away with this one (it should be quite easy to bring my faux mastering down, as it was a really simple chain, and it was all ITB).

tut tut.

Quote:So here is how I handled my guitars (just to give you insight on his particular mix). I panned the guitars 1-2 main mics at about the 45 degree mark on opposite sides, as I'm sure you all hear. I panned their distance mics hard L and hard R. Sent that to my guitar buss (muting their masters), as well as sending them to a mono buss with a guitar amp plugin on it (a process that I've employed often). I wonder if I have some phase things happening with it, so it is making them sound extremely wide. Maybe I need to change the center channel up a bit and the send to the verb, or bring it up a touch in volume.

blimey, that's creative!

the only point i'd make is that at 1:00, for example, the guitars are presented hard panned without the benefit of spatial messages in the time domain eg Haas. the right guitar doesn't appear in the left, nor vice versa. i personally ditched the wet mikes so i could employ a more consistent ambiance....and have full control over everything in the time, frequency and amplitude thanggg instead of fighting it. K.I.S.S. !

Quote:When using my mid side Eq, I do try to say within a 1-1.5 dB change, unless I'm clearing out low end from the sides, to try and mitigate weird skewing. Maybe I'll just bypass it.

i'd say that it isn't the level/change that is important per se, but what subjective (psychoacoustic) effect it has on the frequency bands across the spectrum: the instruments/arrangement, their harmonic structures....etc etc. a minor change in amplitude in the HF zone will be pretty significant, say, compared to the gain's impact in the low-mid (Equal Loudness Contours refer - Fletcher-Munson et al). and if you take out treble, you are subjectively boosting the low-mids without touching them. big topic.

my idea would be to flick between mono and stereo with about 10 seconds between each flick; if you do it too quickly the ears won't have time to adjust. see if the mix stays consistent in timbre, for example - let your ears be the judge. if things go pear shaped, it's an indication that we need to go back to the drawing board.

Quote:So I'll address these things and see if I can keep my energy and bring it down to more a dynamic feeling mix (I usually don't try to compete in the loudness war, but I let myself fall prey to the, "Wow, this sounds better when I turn it up" trap [i actually feel a bit embarrassed because of it]).

it's an easy trap to fall into. i'm the same with coffee too....the more i have, the more i want. Undecided

catch yer laters,,,
Beware...........Cognitive Dissonance!
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#8
addendum:
i'd inject some automation to get more musical dynamic (not to be confused with compression dynamic, i hasten to add) and contrast going throughout the song...it risks sounding less interesting and unemotional otherwise. looking forward to hearing where you take it....BigDave xx
Beware...........Cognitive Dissonance!
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#9
Thanks Dave! And I think I spoke incorrectly about my meters. I should have said I keep my peak meter hitting at approximately -.5 dB. Using reaper and it shows peak metering and RMS metering. Sorry for the confusion.

Yeah, I quite like the guitar trick. I have used it for years, just need to give it some more space that makes sense to the head.

I'll definitely automate it more. I have some general small motion stuff going on, but I didn't really feel where I could punch the energy and focal point through to different sections (I probably didn't give enough time to this, however).

Thanks again. It'll be a few days before I can get to this, I'm away from my mix rig ATM.

Thanks, as always, for such a detailed and thought out critique!

Draper
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#10
Here is my pure mixbus mix with no faux mastering, including taking out my M/S EQ

Draper


.mp3    mixbus as tape Quicksand no volume increase.mp3 --  (Download: 6.12 MB)


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