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"Air" Zwiepack
26-03-2016, 11:42 AM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2016 11:23 PM by Dangerous.)
Post: #1
"Air" Zwiepack
2 instruments, 8 tracks and enough rope for one to hang them selves on. Not really.
I didn't think it was a saxophone that was playing when I first listened to this. It has a strange monolithic woody tone that seems to lack detail. I have to tied to give the sax a bit of that airy brassy tone that I felt was missing. I have also made the mechanical noise more audible as a result (I cant have it both ways). Anyway a nice smooth performance that was fun to work with.

Dave.


.mp3   Zwiepack_Air_Full.mp3 --  (Download: 7.46 MB)


.mp3   Zwiepack_Air_Full#2.mp3 --  (Download: 7.46 MB)


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26-03-2016, 02:52 PM
Post: #2
RE: "Air" Zwiepack
Overall sounds good to me.

I haven’t opened the multitracks yet, so I just compared to preview.

Here’s some subjective feelings.
- I like the fact that in your mix instruments are in center.
- But I like the morning mistyness of sax in preview more. It has nice delay or something, that fills nicely the breathing breaks.
- In your mix the bass is maybe too dry and maybe too much DI-concentrated. I guess there was too much bleed in natural mic?
- There’s too audible quality difference in certain notes. Maybe caused by instrument. For example around 0:23-0:24. They are dying out unnaturally, as if gate closes. Some reverb or delay there might benefit to make notes more coherent. And also it might help the bass to blend to same atmosphere as sax.

These multitracks seem to have interesting challenges. I might try this one also. Normally I comment only those mixes that I also have mixed, but lately you have commented so much of my mixes (thank you for that) and I haven’t been able to give anything back, so it was bothering me and I had to make an exception to my own stupid rules Smile.
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26-03-2016, 10:29 PM
Post: #3
RE: "Air" Zwiepack
(26-03-2016 02:52 PM)Olli H Wrote:  Overall sounds good to me.

I haven’t opened the multitracks yet, so I just compared to preview.

Here’s some subjective feelings.
- I like the fact that in your mix instruments are in center.
- But I like the morning mistyness of sax in preview more. It has nice delay or something, that fills nicely the breathing breaks.
- In your mix the bass is maybe too dry and maybe too much DI-concentrated. I guess there was too much bleed in natural mic?
- There’s too audible quality difference in certain notes. Maybe caused by instrument. For example around 0:23-0:24. They are dying out unnaturally, as if gate closes. Some reverb or delay there might benefit to make notes more coherent. And also it might help the bass to blend to same atmosphere as sax.

These multitracks seem to have interesting challenges. I might try this one also. Normally I comment only those mixes that I also have mixed, but lately you have commented so much of my mixes (thank you for that) and I haven’t been able to give anything back, so it was bothering me and I had to make an exception to my own stupid rules Smile.

Thanks Olli,
This one obviously requires more work. You tend to loose perspective after awhile, some fresh ears will help. It's definitely an interesting multi to work with and there's no session notes that I can find either. I have only done basic fader and slight eq adjustments at this stage so some reverb will most probably help.

It's funny how you usually only comment on mixes that you have mixed, because I'm the opposite. I mostly like to explore what people have before I have a go myself and once I've posted a mix I walk away from it for awhile.

I do pick on you a bit Olli, I guess you are usually quick off the mark with the new multi's and i take some interest in what you come up with. Plus others of course.Smile
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27-03-2016, 08:19 AM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2016 08:19 AM by Olli H.)
Post: #4
RE: "Air" Zwiepack
(26-03-2016 10:29 PM)Dangerous Wrote:  It's funny how you usually only comment on mixes that you have mixed, because I'm the opposite. I mostly like to explore what people have before I have a go myself and once I've posted a mix I walk away from it for awhile.

There’s no right nor wrong way, I guess.

In my case I always want to do my Beta version without listening anybody else’s version. Quite often I stop listening even the preview mix after 10 seconds, if I have already decided that "I’ll try this one". Then after Beta version is done it’s fun listen others’ versions to find one’s own visions shortcomings. Then I’ll do my fixes and post my mix here.

Also, when it comes to commenting, if I haven’t done my own version, it's difficult to know the challenges of the material. It’s quite normal that a bad mix with good material sounds better than a good mix with bad material. (In my opinion a recording engineer is much more important than a mixing engineer) Therefore it may be difficult to evalute mixers job, if one doesn’t know the starting point. Superwell done rescue mix can still sound mediocre, if compared to well recorded reference song .

For example in your case I was wise enough to mention that you used too much DI-mic. Now I know better that in these multitracks there’s no DI track. Smile My version of this song is soon almost ready.
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27-03-2016, 11:35 PM
Post: #5
RE: "Air" Zwiepack
(27-03-2016 08:19 AM)Olli H Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 10:29 PM)Dangerous Wrote:  It's funny how you usually only comment on mixes that you have mixed, because I'm the opposite. I mostly like to explore what people have before I have a go myself and once I've posted a mix I walk away from it for awhile.

There’s no right nor wrong way, I guess.

In my case I always want to do my Beta version without listening anybody else’s version. Quite often I stop listening even the preview mix after 10 seconds, if I have already decided that "I’ll try this one". Then after Beta version is done it’s fun listen others’ versions to find one’s own visions shortcomings. Then I’ll do my fixes and post my mix here.

Also, when it comes to commenting, if I haven’t done my own version, it's difficult to know the challenges of the material. It’s quite normal that a bad mix with good material sounds better than a good mix with bad material. (In my opinion a recording engineer is much more important than a mixing engineer) Therefore it may be difficult to evalute mixers job, if one doesn’t know the starting point. Superwell done rescue mix can still sound mediocre, if compared to well recorded reference song .

For example in your case I was wise enough to mention that you used too much DI-mic. Now I know better that in these multitracks there’s no DI track. Smile My version of this song is soon almost ready.

It's interesting Olli and my methodology in this area is always revolving. Of late I'm finding I'm bouncing down 5 or so mixes and listening to them over a week tweaking each one, so by the time I've posted a track I generally need a break from it.
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27-03-2016, 11:39 PM
Post: #6
RE: "Air" Zwiepack
What was I saying about the rope?
Posted #2 mix with some reverb and ambience added. I'm feeling a bit defeated with this one. Time to walk away. Smile
Dave.
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29-03-2016, 11:00 AM
Post: #7
RE: "Air" Zwiepack
To me the second version is better. There's more distant to both instruments and they blend together a bit better. The space you added feels pretty natural. The difference is not huge between these two versions. But as you said: "Time to walk away"...
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05-04-2016, 03:10 PM
Post: #8
RE: "Air" Zwiepack
I only listened to the second version. I like the atmosphere you were trying for. Maybe you should add some compression to the sax, so that it does not get as loud at times, such as on the first note or at 0.23. I think this will also improve how the note fades out as Olli commented.
The sax also has a bit too much breathing and playing sounds. As with the other mixes posted here I wondered how much of the spot you used. Using only the main mic array and the bass spot the piece pretty much mixes itself!
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08-04-2016, 11:29 AM
Post: #9
RE: "Air" Zwiepack
(05-04-2016 03:10 PM)therecordingguy Wrote:  I only listened to the second version. I like the atmosphere you were trying for. Maybe you should add some compression to the sax, so that it does not get as loud at times, such as on the first note or at 0.23. I think this will also improve how the note fades out as Olli commented.
The sax also has a bit too much breathing and playing sounds. As with the other mixes posted here I wondered how much of the spot you used. Using only the main mic array and the bass spot the piece pretty much mixes itself!

Thanks for listening and the advise. I found this quite a fatiguing track to mix, which means I probably spent too much time on it. I will have another fresh go at this in the next couple of weeks based on your advise. I really like the sound you achieved with your mix. It's very helpful receiving this sort of feedback. Cheers.

Dave.
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