My mix - A bit too heavy?

[schubert1983]

After spending 1-2 years learning from online resources, tutorials and tips from the pros, and failing miserably.. I think i finally have something decent.. But I can't seem to get to the level of loudness without keeping it heavy at the same time.. may be I'm struggling with the low end..

Feedback good or bad, will be of great value thanks

[Blitzzz]

Low end is not your biggest problem: This mix sounds like a stereo mic that was placed outside a rehearsal room while the band was playing inside that room. If that was your intention then congratz - mission accomplished. If not, you should stop overusing reverb.

My advice: If you want an aggressive and "in your face" wall of sound, use a tiny, tiny bit of plate reverb for the snare. That's it. You can use a delay to give the vocals more depth but don't drown the whole mix with roomy verb. It will never sound loud and aggressive because of the massive amount of room reverb in your mix.

You can compare your mix with this one http://discussion.cambridge-mt.com/showt...p?tid=5139 and hear the difference.

[dcp10200]

The biggest problems for me are the drums and vocals. The drums are really flaccid and don't really have the punch that they need to fit into the mix. If you have access to a trigger program with really punchy drum samples, this is a good place to use em. If not you're going to have to use a fair bit of Eq and compression to really get the drums (especially the kick) to really punch through the mix. For reference here's a mix that I did of the same track: http://discussion.cambridge-mt.com/showt...?tid=13076, I re-sampled the drums which made mixing easier but you can get them to sound similar depending on how you eq the kit.

Like Blitzzz said, the reverb really is hurting you if you want more volume. It dampens the attack of the drums and really just makes them muddy. The whole kit really doesn't need much room sound, just enough to just put it in a space and make the snare pop. a small plate reverb with a 600-800 millisecond decay or even a stereo slapback delay set at 20-30 milliseconds can give you that effect of a room and make it easier to really push the volume up.

The vocals are really far back in the mix and are just really small. Here with this style of vocal compression, limiting, eq, and saturation are your four best tools to get them to stand out. I find I start out with an eq removing any unwanted frequencies before I start compressing ( Highpass at 100 Hz, a parametric scoop at 700-800 Hz, and if the vocals are harsh and overly bright, a low pass at 13 kHz and a parametric cut at 4 kHz). Then I use a compressor running very aggressively ( fast attack and release pulling 5-8 dBs of gain reduction) to keep the levels consistent, a soft clipper to dirty up the vocals and exaggerate the rasp and grit in them, and a limiter to really push them out in the mix. if you want to widen your vocals out you can use that same slapback delay blended in really subtly to get the effect you want.

The guitar tone you have here is the right idea for the style, there is some fizz at the top end, but that can be solved with a low pass at 10 kHz and a really surgical parametric cut at 2-3 kHz.

If you want an idea of what to do with your mix, try listening to Hatebreed, Turnstile, Throwdown, Counterparts, and other bands in the metalcore style.

[schubert1983]

Blitz! thanks for the quick feedback..

I do hear the excessive reverb on the snare, I think I'll try reducing that a bit.. Apart from that, I have sends to reverb only on the guitars BUS and the backing vocals, but I think the mistake I have made is that the faders on the reverb channels are too high.. So the wet is heard more.. Thanks again for the feedback

Just to add to that.. my reasoning for trying on more reverb is: One of my favorite mix engineers is Jens Bogren..
I wonder how he gets his mixes to sound so huge w.r.t to guitars and bass, and yet get so much low-end definition.. I was trying to accomplish something like that..
If you listen to his mixes of bands like Daylight Dies or Kataonia's album called 'The great cold distance', he does use quite a bit reverb, and yet it sounds so realistic.. I think you can easily go wrong with reverb in a bid to create a superb sonic environment.. I think it's just going to be a few more years of practice and perfection

[schubert1983]

Thanks for the feedback.. Yes I did not spend much time on the vocals, but I probably ought to.. However I wouldn't really mix the vocals to bring it to the front.. May be it's just me, but I feel that, with metal, the vocals should just take up the space in and around the guitars without being too upfront.. May be just personal taste..

Coming to the drums, yours sound way better.. On mine, I have parallel compression running on the kick, snare and toms and its being squeezed pretty hard with reduction of -10 to -20db and mixed in. I'm pretty sure I can hear the kick pretty loud .. though the snare can improve a lot as Blitz pointed out.. I did trig the snare but the sample probably needs to be better (its the default Logic snare).. I do have superior 2.0 and may be I can try something from there next

Again, the reverb thing certainly needs a bit of taming, and as I mentioned I'm trying (with little success) to make the wall of guitars sound as big as possible (Jens Bogren style)..

The biggest problems for me are the drums and vocals. The drums are really flaccid and don't really have the punch that they need to fit into the mix. If you have access to a trigger program with really punchy drum samples, this is a good place to use em. If not you're going to have to use a fair bit of Eq and compression to really get the drums (especially the kick) to really punch through the mix. For reference here's a mix that I did of the same track: http://discussion.cambridge-mt.com/showt...?tid=13076, I re-sampled the drums which made mixing easier but you can get them to sound similar depending on how you eq the kit.

Like Blitzzz said, the reverb really is hurting you if you want more volume. It dampens the attack of the drums and really just makes them muddy. The whole kit really doesn't need much room sound, just enough to just put it in a space and make the snare pop. a small plate reverb with a 600-800 millisecond decay or even a stereo slapback delay set at 20-30 milliseconds can give you that effect of a room and make it easier to really push the volume up.

The vocals are really far back in the mix and are just really small. Here with this style of vocal compression, limiting, eq, and saturation are your four best tools to get them to stand out. I find I start out with an eq removing any unwanted frequencies before I start compressing ( Highpass at 100 Hz, a parametric scoop at 700-800 Hz, and if the vocals are harsh and overly bright, a low pass at 13 kHz and a parametric cut at 4 kHz). Then I use a compressor running very aggressively ( fast attack and release pulling 5-8 dBs of gain reduction) to keep the levels consistent, a soft clipper to dirty up the vocals and exaggerate the rasp and grit in them, and a limiter to really push them out in the mix. if you want to widen your vocals out you can use that same slapback delay blended in really subtly to get the effect you want.

The guitar tone you have here is the right idea for the style, there is some fizz at the top end, but that can be solved with a low pass at 10 kHz and a really surgical parametric cut at 2-3 kHz.

If you want an idea of what to do with your mix, try listening to Hatebreed, Turnstile, Throwdown, Counterparts, and other bands in the metalcore style.