Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Human Radio - You And Me And The Radio (M&F)
#11
(06-02-2016, 06:09 AM)Shul Wrote: Some expensive stuff you have lol

Question: you said you used the limiter on the drum bus... That means overall you used MORE limiting on the master?

Trying to identify why the drums sound like that. Limiting kills dynamics.. I know so cause when I over do it in mastering my mix sounds squashed.

I believe if you are limiting on top of more limiting you are somehow compresing.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anytime you're curious what's going on in my mix, ask, and I will tell.. This is all educational for everyone so I'm open: the drums are all mixed and routed to an aux track in a stereo buss, the 1176AE here as a leveler (is used to give the drums a "confined" presence in the mix). The 2nd snare track here is fattened with a short room verb under the main snare and that room verb also going through the buss limiter is giving the sound that sounds like compression.. On the master buss of the mix pass, there is a UA SSL G-buss compressor but on just to glue the song (Ratio: 2, Threahold: 0, Attack: 1) - the 1176AE is not the same limiter as a L1 or L3 or Ozone.. There's certain characteristics to the 1176 and even LA2A/3A (consider "levelers") that can allow you to control the space a group of tracks sit in the mix.

Take a look at this video from CLA and look at the amount of these levelers he has going (there's a few hardware 1176AE in there!) http://youtu.be/0argtn0HNE0

Ever since Bruce Swedien revealed in an interview some years ago that he didn't use any compression on Thriller or even at all really in his mixing career, it was like God speaking to the mixing community.. I've never reached for a "compressor" again and prefer fader rides..
M1 Pro MBP: is my Hattori Hanzo.
Reply
#12
OK, but are you also using a limiter when mastering?

Compressed music is mainstream now. Back in the days records were more raw.. Today records are processed a lot more. Everyone uses compression at some point. But thrillers was recorded by top notch musicians.. I don't doubt there was no lack of dynamics or just too much dynamics.
Reply
#13
Hi
I also am trying out the Nx with hd600's ,as a secondary as my room is not perfect ,the free JB Isone is also a great plugin i have been using to simulate crosstalk on headphones.
But i still prefer mixing on monitors in a well treated room.
just a matter of getting the mix to translate on different monitoring situations and finding a suitable reference to compare to !
Your mix sounds great and translates really well on laptop small monitors,But when listening on Ns 10's the drums sound a little top heavy especially the kick beater.
The Tambourine just needs some reverb to soften it up into the background a touch.
Just some thoughts while having a listen .
Cheers Big Grin

Please Help Mike Keep This Awesome Educational Site Alive And Become A patron !
https://www.patreon.com/CambridgeMT/posts

Reply
#14
(06-02-2016, 06:43 AM)Shul Wrote: OK, but are you also using a limiter when mastering?

Compressed music is mainstream now. Back in the days records were more raw.. Today records are processed a lot more. Everyone uses compression at some point. But thrillers was recorded by top notch musicians.. I don't doubt there was no lack of dynamics or just too much dynamics.

I'm using Dangerous EQ > Mannly Massive Passive > Ozone 7 (which includes compression controls)

Compression is required to meet the commercial trend levels because the sounds of a mix has to be squeezed to be pushed better to the maximum loudness in mastering.. My view is since 24-bit is coming, it can deliver loudness without the need to squeeze the mix..
M1 Pro MBP: is my Hattori Hanzo.
Reply
#15
(06-02-2016, 06:49 AM)thedon Wrote: Hi
I also am trying out the Nx with hd600's ,as a secondary as my room is not perfect ,the free JB Isone is also a great plugin i have been using to simulate crosstalk on headphones.
But i still prefer mixing on monitors in a well treated room.
just a matter of getting the mix to translate on different monitoring situations and finding a suitable reference to compare to !
Your mix sounds great and translates really well on laptop small monitors,But when listening on Ns 10's the drums sound a little top heavy especially the kick beater.
The Tambourine just needs some reverb to soften it up into the background a touch.
Just some thoughts while having a listen .
Cheers Big Grin

All makes sense.. I've been rotating my recalls and will hit those points on the next time I'm in this session..

Man I couldnt find NS10s and had to opt for the HS7 (with the deceptive white cone lol) and don't think I want to run an amp for the 10s where the HS have the power in them.. But NS10 is the holy grail of monitoring... I remember back when I was moving away from audio, Yamaha announced they was going to stop making replacement parts and I'm suprised to see the 10s still strong in use 15 years later.

If a mix makes it there (10s) it will make it anywhere..

NX is downright amazing IMO.. I've spent a lot of time in rooms and sure while nothing beat a real room, for the right experience the NX can help a mixer make similar decisions as if in a room... The balance it provides.. And every time I bypass NX, I'm happy with the foundation and can work from there. Sonarworks is really good also for the Senn HD cans.. All this stuff is amazing to me.. I never thought I'd see the day when pro Audi tech would be this advanced..
M1 Pro MBP: is my Hattori Hanzo.
Reply
#16
Ok then you are compressing on mastering as well. that explains why the drums have that sound in part.

24bit having to do with loudness I agree with you on that. Sound fidelity has to do with sample rate.. The to hand to hand together .. 24bit/96khz .... Music will make a big jump. Its HD TV but in audio.
Reply
#17
(06-02-2016, 07:00 AM)Digitaldruglord Wrote:
(06-02-2016, 06:49 AM)thedon Wrote: Hi
I also am trying out the Nx with hd600's ,as a secondary as my room is not perfect ,the free JB Isone is also a great plugin i have been using to simulate crosstalk on headphones.
But i still prefer mixing on monitors in a well treated room.
just a matter of getting the mix to translate on different monitoring situations and finding a suitable reference to compare to !
Your mix sounds great and translates really well on laptop small monitors,But when listening on Ns 10's the drums sound a little top heavy especially the kick beater.
The Tambourine just needs some reverb to soften it up into the background a touch.
Just some thoughts while having a listen .
Cheers Big Grin

All makes sense.. I've been rotating my recalls and will hit those points on the next time I'm in this session..

Man I couldnt find NS10s and had to opt for the HS7 (with the deceptive white cone lol) and don't think I want to run an amp for the 10s where the HS have the power in them.. But NS10 is the holy grail of monitoring... I remember back when I was moving away from audio, Yamaha announced they was going to stop making replacement parts and I'm suprised to see the 10s still strong in use 15 years later.

If a mix makes it there (10s) it will make it anywhere..

NX is downright amazing IMO.. I've spent a lot of time in rooms and sure while nothing beat a real room, for the right experience the NX can help a mixer make similar decisions as if in a room... The balance it provides.. And every time I bypass NX, I'm happy with the foundation and can work from there. Sonarworks is really good also for the Senn HD cans.. All this stuff is amazing to me.. I never thought I'd see the day when pro Audi tech would be this advanced..
Technology is amazing.
I love the hs7s a great sounding monitor with a nice flat sound.
The Ns10's have a sound of their own which takes a lot of getting used to ,you are right about the amp ,I'm running them through a 150 watt RMS mosfet audiophile amp I hand built myself about 30 years ago which sounds amazing ,but i have to be careful not to crank the volume to loud and cook them as they are only rated at 60 watts ,120 max .
I am thinking of getting hd800's and amp ,How Would you rate them compared to would hd 650's for mixing ?
Cheers .

Please Help Mike Keep This Awesome Educational Site Alive And Become A patron !
https://www.patreon.com/CambridgeMT/posts

Reply
#18
(06-02-2016, 07:46 AM)thedon Wrote:
(06-02-2016, 07:00 AM)Digitaldruglord Wrote:
(06-02-2016, 06:49 AM)thedon Wrote: Hi
I also am trying out the Nx with hd600's ,as a secondary as my room is not perfect ,the free JB Isone is also a great plugin i have been using to simulate crosstalk on headphones.
But i still prefer mixing on monitors in a well treated room.
just a matter of getting the mix to translate on different monitoring situations and finding a suitable reference to compare to !
Your mix sounds great and translates really well on laptop small monitors,But when listening on Ns 10's the drums sound a little top heavy especially the kick beater.
The Tambourine just needs some reverb to soften it up into the background a touch.
Just some thoughts while having a listen .
Cheers Big Grin

All makes sense.. I've been rotating my recalls and will hit those points on the next time I'm in this session..

Man I couldnt find NS10s and had to opt for the HS7 (with the deceptive white cone lol) and don't think I want to run an amp for the 10s where the HS have the power in them.. But NS10 is the holy grail of monitoring... I remember back when I was moving away from audio, Yamaha announced they was going to stop making replacement parts and I'm suprised to see the 10s still strong in use 15 years later.

If a mix makes it there (10s) it will make it anywhere..

NX is downright amazing IMO.. I've spent a lot of time in rooms and sure while nothing beat a real room, for the right experience the NX can help a mixer make similar decisions as if in a room... The balance it provides.. And every time I bypass NX, I'm happy with the foundation and can work from there. Sonarworks is really good also for the Senn HD cans.. All this stuff is amazing to me.. I never thought I'd see the day when pro Audi tech would be this advanced..
Technology is amazing.
I love the hs7s a great sounding monitor with a nice flat sound.
The Ns10's have a sound of their own which takes a lot of getting used to ,you are right about the amp ,I'm running them through a 150 watt RMS mosfet audiophile amp I hand built myself about 30 years ago which sounds amazing ,but i have to be careful not to crank the volume to loud and cook them as they are only rated at 60 watts ,120 max .
I am thinking of getting hd800's and amp ,How Would you rate them compared to would hd 650's for mixing ?
Cheers .

I would only recommend the HD800 for playback only.. The highs are so detailed they tend to "ring" but they are like Genelecs for the ears.. Very detailed, you'll hear everything you won't hear on other monitoring.. Due to the 800's high amp handling you won't need to listen to material too loud or even at medium volume, at a low volume you'll hear a brutally honest reference of what's really happening in the song mix. HD800 and another HD pair are essential because the HD800 will make you think you've done the perfect job and when you listen back in other areas, you'll realize you need something a little more "real world" for the mix decisions.. Using the HD650 is great as they give that real world reference a bit better..

I recommend first listening to reference material and some HDTracks material through the 800s to understand their characteristics and then use them for mix monitoring.
M1 Pro MBP: is my Hattori Hanzo.
Reply
#19
(06-02-2016, 07:24 AM)Shul Wrote: Ok then you are compressing on mastering as well. that explains why the drums have that sound in part.

24bit having to do with loudness I agree with you on that. Sound fidelity has to do with sample rate.. The to hand to hand together .. 24bit/96khz .... Music will make a big jump. Its HD TV but in audio.

I used the CLA drum plug on the second snare using the "Zuul" setting which is a bypass setting and I used the verb in there.. The CLA plugs are some of the best I've heard/seen IMO - even in Zuul there's a tone being passed and maybe a default compression even though compression in the plug was turned off.. For instance, with some hardware gear you'll find guys who will pass mixes "through" a unit with no setting just to get the color.. For example I knew of guys that would pass their audio through a MPC 3000 ad/da converters to get the summing effect from it printed on their track giving a distinctive potent sound.. The plugins have evolved to offer this effect too.. On this song I placed the Kramer HLS on each channel following the Console 1 (used only for the "drive" emulation of a SSL 4000 with no eq or compression used in Console 1) with HLS on default and settings not touched... That move adds a pleasant color... The plugins are delivering hardware characteristics.. The bite on the snare is the result of above.. If you listen to the song drop at 2:50 when the snare "rises" in, that's the natural dynamics of the recorded track.. And the leveling on the drum bus allows that kind of nuance to happen going from low to high while stopping the volume from going over a set volume. When that part comes in, it's audible that the drummer is increasing intensity of the snare.. On a Hip Hop or Pop song I would sustain the snare. But on Rock stuff, where there's a drummer giving a performance, the drummer need to shine like everyone else in the band.

Another component affecting what you hear with the snare in the Ampex ATR-102 at 15ips used at the end of the mix stereo bus.. That does have a saturation effect..
M1 Pro MBP: is my Hattori Hanzo.
Reply
#20
I can appreciate what you want to get out of this mix, a dynamic, bright, and tight mix. However the kick seems to be really lacking that rock and roll thump, it actually sounds more like a lower pitched snare than a kick drum. A small boost around 50-60 Hz in the kick would bring some of the energy back to the kick. The snare also has a brittle sound to it, probably from too much bottom snare in the mix. Back off the bottom snare and boost the top for some more weight. The vocals sound have a rich, warm sound to them. They need a stereo reverb on them just to have some more space around them and to fit them more into the room that the drums and guitar are in. For the chorus at least, some parallel compression would help the drums to pop out a touch and to help differentiate it from the verses. Overall I like were the mix is headed, it just needs more time for polishing.
Mixing is way more art and soul than science. We don’t really know what we’re doing. We do it because we love music! It’s the love of music first. Eddie Kramer

Gear list: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mbox Mini w/Pro Tools Express, Reaper, Various plugins, AKG K240 MKii, Audio Technica ATH M50x, Yorkville YSM 6
Reply