Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Promises And Lies - AZ Mix
#1
Okay, so this mix was a real challenge. The biggest elements I had trouble figuring out how to get to fit together were the guitars and the vocals... which is pretty much the whole tune. Smile

The guitars had too much drive on them when they were recorded (and not quite enough mid tones) and thus are rather hard to fit into the mix because even if you reduce it to a single guitar, it's still a bit non-distinct because of the drive. Together, there they tend to fall into the background partly because the playing wasn't quite metronome precise as it should have been for something like this and its hard to get them to be aggressive because you just can't get them present enough without causing other problems. One trick I used was to copy one of the guitar tracks and put a bandpass filter on it from ~750Hz to 2kHz (to remove the bass and mud on the low end and try to remove a good deal of the fuzz on the high end), pan that center, and then add in a fair amount of that. Helped bring the guitars forward without sacrificing the overall tone.

I note Mike mentioned Judas Priest and their like in his article. One thing I've become aware of lately is the fact that on many of these older "heavy" bands, if you listen closely, the guitars aren't really quite as overdriven as they sound and that backing off the preamp gain a so it's just on the edge can give a much more satisfying result. AC/DC for example did pretty much that. Most of their tone seems to be a softly clipped tone when notes are played singly but good and heavy when chords are played however, I believe the more common sound from that era is actually more of an overdriven power amp. (Which means this isn't appartment friendly recording.) If you're a guitar player, listen closely to these two bands and you'll hear what I'm talking about. More to the point, I've become aware that the tone that works best on stage probably isn't going to work well in the studio and you need to back off the treble and the drive a bit if you're a hard rock or metal band.

The drone of the bass guitar was another challenge. It's one of those "get it wrong and everyone gets a headache and turns the music off" sort of parts. I finally decided to do some parallel processing to try to treat the upper and lower range separately and then blend them back together so I could get a good, solid sub-100Hz tone but also have a fair bit of the 600-1000Hz to actually hear the note. Didn't quite work out the way I had hoped but it's acceptable.

The vocals were another nightmare. Lots of time in Melodyne here and lots of experimentation with different compressors and different compressor settings. I've been concerned lately that I've been over compressing my vocals but here, that was the only way to get the lead to settle down so I compensated by using a somewhat longer attack time to try to retain a bit of the edge.

The backing vocals were another matter entirely. The whole harmony structure just doesn't want to fit the song and was horridly out of tune to start with. First thing I did was to try to limit the drift and warble out of those vocals so that only the lead did that and thus get them to blend better. I notice in Mike's mix it sounds like he may have removed the lower part entirely and I thought about that. Anyway, I finally got it to a point where I'm at least not unhappy with it.

So here's my version of this. Like I said, not 100% satisfied I got it all right (and some of that is just me not getting along with the specific sub-genre) but I think its to a point where the client would be pleased with it, or at least be at the polishing phase of the transaction, just looking for fixes, not rip-the-headphones-off sort of response.


.mp3    promises-and-lies-mixdown.mp3 --  (Download: 10.86 MB)


Old West Audio
Reply
#2
Oops... realized I forgot to pan the ride and hi-hat. Just replaced the track.

(Oh, and one more note about guitars. Not really a thing on metal but on some rock tunes, the scratch notes--the chucka-chucka you hear--is actually a separate track. Whether you hear them as a click or a crunch depends on whether they're playing a single string or several strings. For an example of the single-string variety, check out "White Wedding" by Billy Idol. Friend of mine once used a guitar scratch on eight notes in place of a click during a recording session because for the session it was easier for them to play to and a lot more musically inspiring, and at the end of the mix he and his brother decided to leave it in because it fit so well.)
Old West Audio
Reply
#3
Excellent job with the music especially controlling the low frequency resonances of the bass and guitars,a couple of cymbal hits maybe jumping out a touch .
Even though this song has to be cranked up loud ,listening at low level , maybe lead Vocal could come up a touch more .
Not sure about the tuning of the background vocals some low octaves are sounding out of tune with the bass and guitars.

Please Help Mike Keep This Awesome Educational Site Alive And Become A patron !
https://www.patreon.com/CambridgeMT/posts

Reply
#4
(07-12-2015, 09:31 AM)thedon Wrote: Excellent job with the music especially controlling the low frequency resonances of the bass and guitars,a couple of cymbal hits maybe jumping out a touch .
Even though this song has to be cranked up loud ,listening at low level , maybe lead Vocal could come up a touch more .
Not sure about the tuning of the background vocals some low octaves are sounding out of tune with the bass and guitars.

Yeah, you're right about the cymbals. In fact, I decided I wasn't going to deal with them changing pitch on me any more and just went ahead and replaced them entirely after setting up a narrow band pass EQ to try to get a more distinctive strike to trigger off of. (As a matter of fact, I've got a bit of help going on the snare and hat as well just because I didn't quite like parts of the sound.)

I noticed the vocal issue earlier and boosted it up a touch as well.

As for the vocal/guitar tuning, I'm undecided there. I was futzing around yesterday and I don't think that guitar's low string was tuned correctly and that's what you're hearing. The resultant sound is probably one reason Mike opted to drop it.

After reading Mike's article, I also decided he was right about the kick and bass competing and went ahead and added in a ducker for a ~1.5dB drop on the bass. Made worlds of difference. Anyway, here's a somewhat tweaked version 2 with these and a few other small items I tinkered around with as well as a dB or two of bus compression using the API 2500 plugin across the instruments (doesn't include VOX or FX)


.mp3    promises-and-lies-mixdown-v2.mp3 --  (Download: 10.86 MB)


Old West Audio
Reply
#5
[quote='azwayne' pid='39813' dateline='1449386900']
Okay, so this mix was a real challenge. The biggest elements I had trouble figuring out how to get to fit together were the guitars and the vocals... which is pretty much the whole tune. Smile

This is a good mix and your bass tone is nice and round unlike mine which is a little more low mid driven, but it fits your mix nicely. Overall the mix itself sounds somewhat dark which is also cool. Anything I would do differently I have in my mix so Im not going to critique your mix. Also it seems like you have a good idea about what you're doing anyway.

My Original Music

"One often learns more from ten days of agony than ten years of contentment."

Pro Tools 12.6/Studio One 3 Pro
Studiolive 16 Series III
Yamaha HS5/HS8
Console 1
Reply