(25-10-2015, 02:58 PM)The_Metallurgist Wrote: Till, do you suffer from hearing impairment? i'm being serious. i have no idea how anyone can listen to this mix without suffering major fatigue; the amount of compression applied here is absolutely ridiculous. most musicians have impaired hearing, indeed, many kids these days are also showing significant signs of damage due to changes in listening habits; ear buds and prolonged exposures above safe thresholds are partly to blame - it's becoming a global governmental concern. these might be your target audience, perhaps; without their DAC's and speakers distorting to hell they can't embrace the music because they probably can't hear it unless it's doing so.
if your mix was loudness-matched against a dynamic mix that complied with iTunes dynamic specifications (i.e. their playback leveller which penalises loud songs) and global loudness legislation for example, it would, and does........suck. it's totally lifeless and lacks any energy whatsoever. clearly you are yet to be convinced the loudness war is over because you are waving a middle finger to dynamics with much gusto? however they do say that "Loud is perceived better", only it's been proven that it isn't. but it does impress the noobs and i can't help wondering if you are exploiting that [intentionally, or otherwise]?
anyway, i recommend you get your hearing checked. because if it is failing from poor attention to health and safety, you need to act fast to stop it declining any further. hearing aids aren't cool, eh?
on another matter, Mike states in the MDL's page introduction, that:
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"All these files are presented......without any effects or processing."
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that's clearly NOT the case with your multi-track. it's been tampered with subsequent to the recordings...you've EQ'd, compressed and automated. the vocal has also been pitch corrected.
if i'm going to mix something, i want to apply my own parameters without having them, and their artifacts(!) forced upon me, and i'd suggest that people here in the forum, would also benefit from not having to negotiate material that's been tampered with. for example, automation is going to mess up someone's Insert chain, and thereafter through to the stereo buss, pretty substantially. if they don't yet understand what they are being confronted with in the supplied materials, they will never stand a hope in learning anything. they believe they are mixing "The Recordings", without processing - Mike has told them so.
if the kid can't pitch and you don't want the world to know, i could understand processing it before releasing it in the Public Domain (but poor pitching skills will show up at gigs anyway). personally, i think it would provide excellent opportunity in the forum for people to have a go at doing "transparent" pitch correction, for example. and if low cuts and high cuts or shelving filters need to be applied, that they learn by having a go at doing this themselves. the same goes for compression...and automation.
i don't wish to sound confrontational, but i have concerns. your fundamental concern appears to be marketing and promotion for the band (hence the loudness - to impress perhaps)? my concern is for my on-going personal development and helping the development of others as best i can, in a sharing community. i believe that what you are doing is hindering the development process, not only in this mix, but in your multi-track. when i read comments like "nice mix", or "this is a very good, solid, pleasant, and effective mix", then i think my concerns are well founded. noobs are going to read those comments and think that what they are hearing IS good and will no doubt try and replicate it. that's not a healthy learning environment, in any language.
i challenge you to put this song out WITH dynamics intact. aim for -14LUFS, a True Peak of -1 and an approximate +5 LRA (simply turning it down is not enough, though for those who do turn this mix down to loudness match it against =14 LUFS, say, they will immediately discover where my claims of dullness came from). i bet my pension that you can't rise to the challenge. indeed, i challenge EVERYONE to have a go at this. in attempting to, you should soon discover the issues present in the multi which nobody has discussed yet.
anyway, please at least think about the issues i raise, that's all i ask. without thought, there cannot be a potential for progress......
Cheers,,
Dave
Wow You really help the young to be better,
Or maybe I should say "Kill them",
you afraid they grow up and be better than you?
I think (if you are a human) It is good idea you tell what he can do better, This shit you put in his face is bulling! Not accepted!
Why not show us? do a mix and put up.
One thing for sure is, I Never want to use you as a Mix engineer, with that attitude you have.
Tom.
DAW Harrison Mixbus 32c, Mac Mini M1, Tube HP Amp & Topping 10s DAC, OLLO S4X headphone
(25-10-2015, 02:58 PM)The_Metallurgist Wrote: Till, do you suffer from hearing impairment? i'm being serious. i have no idea how anyone can listen to this mix without suffering major fatigue; the amount of compression applied here is absolutely ridiculous. most musicians have impaired hearing, indeed, many kids these days are also showing significant signs of damage due to changes in listening habits; ear buds and prolonged exposures above safe thresholds are partly to blame - it's becoming a global governmental concern. these might be your target audience, perhaps; without their DAC's and speakers distorting to hell they can't embrace the music because they probably can't hear it unless it's doing so.
if your mix was loudness-matched against a dynamic mix that complied with iTunes dynamic specifications (i.e. their playback leveller which penalises loud songs) and global loudness legislation for example, it would, and does........suck. it's totally lifeless and lacks any energy whatsoever. clearly you are yet to be convinced the loudness war is over because you are waving a middle finger to dynamics with much gusto? however they do say that "Loud is perceived better", only it's been proven that it isn't. but it does impress the noobs and i can't help wondering if you are exploiting that [intentionally, or otherwise]?
anyway, i recommend you get your hearing checked. because if it is failing from poor attention to health and safety, you need to act fast to stop it declining any further. hearing aids aren't cool, eh?
on another matter, Mike states in the MDL's page introduction, that:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"All these files are presented......without any effects or processing."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
that's clearly NOT the case with your multi-track. it's been tampered with subsequent to the recordings...you've EQ'd, compressed and automated. the vocal has also been pitch corrected.
if i'm going to mix something, i want to apply my own parameters without having them, and their artifacts(!) forced upon me, and i'd suggest that people here in the forum, would also benefit from not having to negotiate material that's been tampered with. for example, automation is going to mess up someone's Insert chain, and thereafter through to the stereo buss, pretty substantially. if they don't yet understand what they are being confronted with in the supplied materials, they will never stand a hope in learning anything. they believe they are mixing "The Recordings", without processing - Mike has told them so.
if the kid can't pitch and you don't want the world to know, i could understand processing it before releasing it in the Public Domain (but poor pitching skills will show up at gigs anyway). personally, i think it would provide excellent opportunity in the forum for people to have a go at doing "transparent" pitch correction, for example. and if low cuts and high cuts or shelving filters need to be applied, that they learn by having a go at doing this themselves. the same goes for compression...and automation.
i don't wish to sound confrontational, but i have concerns. your fundamental concern appears to be marketing and promotion for the band (hence the loudness - to impress perhaps)? my concern is for my on-going personal development and helping the development of others as best i can, in a sharing community. i believe that what you are doing is hindering the development process, not only in this mix, but in your multi-track. when i read comments like "nice mix", or "this is a very good, solid, pleasant, and effective mix", then i think my concerns are well founded. noobs are going to read those comments and think that what they are hearing IS good and will no doubt try and replicate it. that's not a healthy learning environment, in any language.
i challenge you to put this song out WITH dynamics intact. aim for -14LUFS, a True Peak of -1 and an approximate +5 LRA (simply turning it down is not enough, though for those who do turn this mix down to loudness match it against =14 LUFS, say, they will immediately discover where my claims of dullness came from). i bet my pension that you can't rise to the challenge. indeed, i challenge EVERYONE to have a go at this. in attempting to, you should soon discover the issues present in the multi which nobody has discussed yet.
anyway, please at least think about the issues i raise, that's all i ask. without thought, there cannot be a potential for progress......
Cheers,,
Dave
Hello Dave,
I was wondering if you would be so kind as to tell which tools and/or software you used to gather your specific numbers.
TC Electroncs has a great one, or maybe a Durrough meter or something from Waves perhaps like Paz?
It seems with all your meter readings I can't seem to find the one that's the most important.
That's the meter that measures the amount of FAT in YOUR HEAD!
It seems that that one has been peaking and distorting for quite some time now.
It's your loss if you continue to ignore those readings and meters.
just wanted to shout out a loud THANK YOU to all of you.
You rock.
In barely two weeks there have been forty (!) threads with mixes of this song here and most of them are solid. Some are creative and innovative, others refreshingly old school. I love how most people didn't orientate on my mix but chose to try an independent approach. This made this song chameleonic. There are so many different versions out there! I even saw the first electronic remix on soundcloud.
I'm overwhelmed with feedback and I love to answer all your questions regarding recording, mixing, mastering or personal questions.
Didn't expect to get such a huge response from this.
The first guy who bought the EP did it like an hour after release. He came from this forum and donated a good amount on top.
I love you guys. Thank you so much. This is so awesome.
just wanted to shout out a loud THANK YOU to all of you.
You rock.
In barely two weeks there have been forty (!) threads with mixes of this song here and most of them are solid. Some are creative and innovative, others refreshingly old school. I love how most people didn't orientate on my mix but chose to try an independent approach. This made this song chameleonic. There are so many different versions out there! I even saw the first electronic remix on soundcloud.
I'm overwhelmed with feedback and I love to answer all your questions regarding recording, mixing, mastering or personal questions.
Didn't expect to get such a huge response from this.
The first guy who bought the EP did it like an hour after release. He came from this forum and donated a good amount on top.
I love you guys. Thank you so much. This is so awesome.
THANK YOU!
It's great to hear new music from Forkupines and to see you and the guys moving forward with music. I didn't mix Semantics but I always remember looking at the mixes people had done and being blown away by the band. I must say, doing a mix of this track was really fun, the song itself is really good and the mix you made is as good as others in the genre, you really do have a good ear for this style of music. I did prefer the soft master over the original, it's punchier and really sounds full.
Mixing is way more art and soul than science. We don’t really know what we’re doing. We do it because we love music! It’s the love of music first. Eddie Kramer
Gear list: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mbox Mini w/Pro Tools Express, Reaper, Various plugins, AKG K240 MKii, Audio Technica ATH M50x, Yorkville YSM 6
just wanted to shout out a loud THANK YOU to all of you.
You rock.
In barely two weeks there have been forty (!) threads with mixes of this song here and most of them are solid. Some are creative and innovative, others refreshingly old school. I love how most people didn't orientate on my mix but chose to try an independent approach. This made this song chameleonic. There are so many different versions out there! I even saw the first electronic remix on soundcloud.
I'm overwhelmed with feedback and I love to answer all your questions regarding recording, mixing, mastering or personal questions.
Didn't expect to get such a huge response from this.
The first guy who bought the EP did it like an hour after release. He came from this forum and donated a good amount on top.
I love you guys. Thank you so much. This is so awesome.
Hi Wurst, can I ask you what you did for the kick an the snare? I really like how they sounds and I'm not satisfied about how they sounds in my mix =)
have a listen to my mix too and tell me what do you think!
cheers!
Alex
Hi Alex,
I've listened to your mix. It's actually really nice and decent!
Your kick and snare sound fine. Snare cuts nicely through the mix and the kick is well-placed and sounds nice.
I've used like 60% of the sample sounds for both and 40% of the microphone signals blended into each other phase-coherently.
The signal processing on both were a eq to cut out resonances and boost the sweet spots a little and waves cla-76 compressors (blacky's) since they are my favorite for snare and kick.
I always try to set compressors up like rubber bands. If they're too loose they don't work, if they're too tense they don't work neither. It needs to float with the signal and breath.. yeah, that philosophy.
I used the trigger signals to open a gate on both so they wouldn't mess with bleeding too much. I find that you can handle a noise gate way better with trigger signals.
And there was a dynamic eq for the snare to get it heavier. Pushed the punch up a little and cut the ringing, that's why it sounds so dry and snappy.
Keep it up! I'll post this reply in your mix thread, too.
That's a beautiful shimmer on the intro guitar.
Unfortunately the whole mix seems to close up as soon as the rhythm guitars get in, maybe you could work on letting it breath a bit. Apart from the guitars being a little too low it's a decent mix in my opinion, keep it up, lm425!
