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My mix of another song from The Long Wait
#1
I think that it sounds good. I mixed in Reaper and used only stock plugins. Backing vocals were main challenge in this song due to too many tracks of them. Does anyone know which tuning they use on their bass cause it produces some notes under or around 30 Hz. Is this standard 5 string tuned to BEADG, or do they have the mighty low F sharp string (fundamental around 23 Hz) on it ?


.mp3    drag mp3.mp3 --  (Download: 13.24 MB)


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#2
(25-05-2015, 02:13 PM)Obelix Wrote: I think that it sounds good. I mixed in Reaper and used only stock plugins. Backing vocals were main challenge in this song due to too many tracks of them. Does anyone know which tuning they use on their bass cause it produces some notes under or around 30 Hz. Is this standard 5 string tuned to BEADG, or do they have the mighty low F sharp string (fundamental around 23 Hz) on it ?

I think its standard 5-string with B0 as open 1st string (30.9hz). In the opening phrase "When the closer I came" the bass plays E1, B0, D1, C#1,B0, F#1,B1 with a run A2, E3 up to A3
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#3
Hey Obelix.

I listened to your mix. I like the balance with your vocals, guitars and bass.

I'm not sure that using EG1DI is a good idea.....mainly as it is completely dry, is very spikey dynamically and you can hear every single bum note....a good example of this is at 1.32. The two amp mics on the other hand have a nice gentle ambient chorus effect so you don't hear this as it is masked by the repeats and the natural compression of the speakers give a really smooth sound. .... not sure any guitarist will thank you for highlighting their mistakes.

Your snare and kick are way too loud and completely blow apart your balance when they come in. How do you decide on your kick and snare levels? Your bass level is good so you should be able to balance your kick with this. Same with the snare... this should balance with kick drum and vocal.

As your vocal and bass are OK - this shouldn't be a problem for you.....unless your listening environment isn't giving you an accurate picture of what is happening.

I commented on a couple of your mixes a few months back which also had very dominating bottom ends of the frequency spectrum. Has anything changed since then? New headphones or monitors? If not then any improvement in your mixing is going to be glacial because you cant hear what you're doing.

It also compromises many of your observations of other people's mixes - As a pretty active member of this forum who makes lots of comments .... if that advice is flawed its gonna hamper your own development as a mixer.

bottom line....you seem passionate about mixing...but unless you invest in decent speakers/phones....you're just treading water.
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#4
So you're having trouble with the level of the kick/snare... are you fading the kick and snare into the balance in the early or late stages of settling on a rough balance?

Something I've noticed that's at odds with a lot of the advice I've heard/tried is that the later I introduce an instrument to the mix, the louder I tend to push it... That's why I generally don't introduce the vocals until the rhythm section is mixed, or the snare drum and bass transients tend to overwhelm it. After processing to clear the mix spectrally and dynamically, the high fader level sometimes will become more obvious... but adjusting the fader level too much at this stage in the mix could also upset some of your previous decisions, and it can be really hard to unravel all of it without starting over.

All of this becomes a lot to think about when you factor in that you're also trying to preserve headroom and operate at an ideal monitoring level without fiddling with the knob constantly... there are reasons why continually altering your monitoring level during the mix is unproductive and potentially harmful that are out of the scope of my comment, but I'd suggest some research there when you have some time.

So when you're forming a rough balance, it's absolutely critical that you're thinking as purely in terms of artistic, musical engagement as you possibly can... you want to avoid a situation where a technical consideration will become a hangup, because the rough balance needs to be about what feels right. You're developing your concept for the mix, and ultimately making the decisions that shape the music, and overly technical thinking at this stage can be a huge distraction. However, it's clear to me that for you and many others, there is a technical barrier that's making it hard for you to get a good fader level for the kick/snare at this very early phase of the mix. Technical stuff can distract me from mixing with my heart, too, so I've developed a few "mix hacks," little technical strategies/workarounds that seem to work for almost any mix, to help me keep focused on the musical considerations when setting the faders.

Mix hack number 1. The first faders I'll pull up in almost any applicable mix are the kick drum mics, and I set the level such that the kick hits average -18 dB on the master fader.... and then I never touch the kick fader again until automation time at the very end of the mix. Never.

The reason for this is solidly technical, but it's also based on the critical musical role of the instrument. The kick drum presents more potential translation snags than any other instrument due to its significant presence in both the very lowest frequency range (which won't come through on small speakers or phones) as well as the high mids, which are the frequencies humans hear the best... and consequently are well represented on almost any listening system.

What I've done in effect is ensure that I don't need to worry about the level of the kick drum... -18dB is low enough that you're frankly unlikely to ever run out of headroom, and by leaving that fader level fixed I'm forced to balance literally everything else in the mix against the kick. In my experience, trying to balance the kick against another element in the mix forces you to rely on the "snap" or beater sound to judge its level in context, and that usually turns into too much bottom end boom. So rather than being tempted to process my way out of the problem before the processing stage has begun, I force myself into a more disciplined approach.

Mix Hack 2. In most styles, -18 dB is a pretty good place to start for the snare drum also, but it isn't healthy to be as dogmatic about the fader level until a little later. Once the kick is set, push the snare fader up to around -18 dB and adjust it until it sounds right with the kick... perceived level and actual amplitude aren't always the same across a broad range of frequencies. You'll usually find that once you fade the bass and vocal into the balance (which I almost always do next) that the snare may need a little adjusting to keep the vocal in front, but -18 dB for most situations will get you close enough to start figuring how you'd like the vocal to balance.

And I'd echo what Hb said about monitors... your mixes actually sound a lot like you might be doing the majority of the work on headphones? There's no reason you can't do a huge part of the mix in phones, but you really need to set up the rough balance and panning decision on speakers. Phones aren't very accurate in the battle ground range, from 20 to 250 hZ, once there's more than one sound source occupying those frequencies, not only because the drivers are too small to render that much low end in time, but also because you're missing the feel of the bass frequencies on your body. As far as stereo is concerned, you'll almost inevitably wind up mixing the stereo image too narrow, since headphones create an unnaturally wide stereo image.

Anyway... give it a shot. Build the mix from the bottom up if this continues to be a difficulty for you... important bass instruments first. Get a spectrum analyzer and make sure that what you're seeing makes sense with what you're hearing... because if it doesn't then your speakers have been lying to you. There's only so far you can get by referencing pro mixes, though, since consumer audio equipment is inaccurate in more ways than just frequency reponse. In fact, many PC speakers have been measured to have reasonably flat frequency responses within their range... but it tends to be at the expense of accurately rendering transients, so the sonics tend to smear in a way that's unhelpful for mixing, even if it sounds pretty nice for listening. So your mix might compare well to a pro mix on said speakers, only to sound spiky and thin on a bigger system that can better handle the dynamics.

Hope it helps, or at least gives you something to think about.
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
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#5
OK. I should fix the gtr1
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#6
Version 2. I did some improvements over 1st version. I did not use DI GTR1 track.


.mp3    aetjh7ui.mp3 --  (Download: 13.62 MB)


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#7
great mix, However there are thing that I would like to point out. Balance wise you have lost big time. The Drum is toooooooooo much. The mix that you did sound like Hip hop. I think your influence depending on it. I would love to recommend you to listen Similar Artists like my favourite Lee Ann Womack , faith hill, Shania twain etc. At least if you have done the drum to sound like that, you should have brought the other instruments up too. other wise when I put the volume down all I listen is going to be Drum. don't get me wrong it is a great mix however just don't use always cutting kick drum at 500 boost 60. Go according to the genre. Please Go to youtube and try to listen those artists that I mentioned. It will help you to be familiar to country music where all instruments Have a big value including Toms which I didn't listen from your mix. Even though your most attention is on drum Take care.
No matter how much you compress something it doesn't make the clipping sound go away so every time you encounter a clipped snare or kick replace them please.
Stop collecting plugins and hardware. First understand the tool you got and then look for extension when you reach your limit.
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#8
You are right. Too much drums, bass and vocal. Let me fix this.
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#9
Version 3.


.mp3    drag12.mp3 --  (Download: 13.03 MB)


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#10
Version 4, it took me long to see how this song should work. Here it is. No more owerpowering drums and bass. This time drums are in mono.


.mp3    drag17.mp3 --  (Download: 5.41 MB)


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