Passing Ships - cool song!

[paulcjohnson]

This is my first rough mix of this song, what do you guys hear?

[pauli]

Nice to meet you Paul. Overall balance of instruments is very good. In the sections of the song where the drums are absent, the vocals occasionally take a step back as the cello and guitar swell to their full volume. The cellos in general seem to go from nearly absent to just a little too present.

I'm not 100% sure what I'm hearing when the drums come in, but there's a click that wanders around the stereo image on the kick drum hits. At first I thought I was hearing a compression artifact, like the release time might be set too fast producing a click, but it seems to travel from speaker to speaker unpredictably, so I'm more inclined to think there's an excess of bass on the sides and my speakers are protesting on the kick hits. Overheads probably need a high pass in that case. Could just be that the "beater slap" of the kick drum is in and out of phase with that sound on the overheads, which would explain why the sound wanders from time to time, but I have no idea why that would be happening. Have you checked the phase relationships of the drums for comb filtering? If I remember right it was pretty good to begin with, but I did wind up making some small timing adjustments on basically all of the multimiked instruments for more summative phase correlation... it'd be worth it to check and see if the bass frequencies on the bass guitar and outside kick mic are in phase, too. Certain processing, particularly EQ, alters the phase, especially if you're making deep cuts or narrow boosts, and really low frequencies are always similar enough to comb filter.

On the subject of drums, I'd like to hear a rounder sound on both the kick drum and snare. To me it sounds like you've built the drum sound around the close mics and you're using the overheads in a supporting role (?) which is a good choice for most metal and rock songs that need really tight, exciting drum sounds at the expense of realism, but that technique doesn't feel as appropriate here. It's hard to tell without knowing how you've processed, but I feel like the "beater slap" is a bit pointy, suggesting to me that the inside kick mic is a little too high in the balance. Similarly, I'm hearing more of the wires on the snare drum rattling than the drum's tone, so I'd look at backing off on the undersnare mic and boosting the oversnare mic, just to give it a little more body.

Your mix is a good deal airier than mine, which as you mentioned is more conservative in the high end, in keeping with my reference material. I prefer a mix with less air for the most part, but that's a matter personal taste and reflects that I grew up listening mainly to older music that isn't as bright. The air in the vocal however is very nice... it becomes a little fatiguing for me by the end of the song, but I think I'm probably in the minority on that. In general I'd recommend making sure the vocal (or whatever the focal instrument might be on a given song) isn't the brightest element in the mix, since it usually runs the entire length of the song and can become a bit fatiguing. For your mix in particular, I'd back off on the air a bit in the verses to give myself more room to increase brightness in the choruses.

On that note, a bit of contrast would benefit your mix as well. Right now I feel like most of the mix elements are very close and the mix as a whole feels a little two dimensional, which would explain why the cello/guitar swells on occasion step in front of the vocal. I'd personally look at increasing the "front to back" contrast to give the mix more of a 3D feel. Traditionally this is done with reverb, but there are other techniques to push an instrument further into the mix. The use of a fast peak catching compressor or transient modeller can reduce the attack on a given instrument, which will increase our perception of depth. Also, darkening an instrument's tone in the high treble will create a natural impression of distance, and a small dip in the high mids on a given instrument will push an instrument a little further back by virtue of allowing something you'd like to hear more step forward at our most sensitive frequency range. Having said all that, this is a minor issue in your mix.

For a rough mix though, very good. I didn't bother riding the vocal in my version, usually don't on practice mixes because it just takes too much time away from my serious music production, but a vocal ride would probably fix the main issue I hear in both our versions. Do take a look at that wandering click, too... I'm curious to know if you can hear what I'm talking about on your system and what might be causing it.

[loweche6]

What pauli said. Can't add too much, but I definitely agree the verse is a little "fighty" between instruments. I also agree it's not bad for a rough mix at all.

Happy Mixing!

Draper

[paulcjohnson]

Thanks guys! Listening back with fresh ears I agree with most everything you've said, and Pauli that detailed reply WOW, impressive!

I tried to get things balanced as much as possible while maintaining a static mix. I did add a little clip gain to the vocal in the verses, but everything else is static. I agree about the 2d thing, and I think riding the instruments would help a lot. I didn't hear the "click" thing with the kick at first but now I think I might have an idea of what's happening there and also see if I can get a more vintage "round" sound from the kick/snare on my next mix. On the vocal air, I've been listening to a band "The 1975" a lot and they pretty much go crazy with that sound so I'm sure I was influenced by that. I used an AMS RMX-16 ambience setting to add a lot of that air the the vocal. I think de-essing some more might tame some of those harsher moments while keeping the airy decay quality?

Again, thanks guys, so cool to get an outside perspective on what i'm doing!

P

[paulcjohnson]

I made another go at it. It's still a static mix but I changed a lot of little things. Let me know what you think!

Paul

[manuke]

Sounds good to me, it's only a personal taste thing but would like to hear a little more snap on the snare and maybe pan things a little more, sounds a little cluttered in the middle at times, but, good stuff, like it a lot.

[paulcjohnson]

Sounds good to me, it's only a personal taste thing but would like to hear a little more snap on the snare and maybe pan things a little more, sounds a little cluttered in the middle at times, but, good stuff, like it a lot.

Thanks, you might would like my mix #1 better, I went with a more vintage feel on the drums in the second mix.

I do think all of the parts would need to be ridden to make the arrangement come alive. For the sake of time I just did the best I could with a static mix.

P