22-07-2014, 09:32 PM
Dave, I think my tone was quite a bit unnecessarily abrasive in my previous post. I must have been having a bad day or something because I'm usually not nasty like that 
so I apologize sincerely for that. Wasn't really fair of me to hijack the thread like that either, so sincere apologies to Bob, too. My main gripe is that it's not really fair to jump to the "hearing loss" conclusion not knowing one's listening environment/history, but I definitely overreacted. You're right to suggest I provide some of my perspective on this.
Having gotten some distance from this one and checking the mix on a few different listening systems, I have a little more perspective on where this gets potentially fatiguing. For me personally, as a biased guitarist, string noise, pick noise, and finger noise are an important part of the intimacy of a performance. However, there is a good deal of compression going on here, which is exacerbating the problem with the high frequency energy, bring the relative level of those details quite a bit higher, which can be a bit harsh (especially the fingers sliding on the coiled lower strings). You also mentioned on my post that it'd be tempting for me to listen to the part with the way it would sound to me when I was playing it... also a very good observation.
Now Chris93 has a good point here as well... listening level is important. A mistake we make all too often on discussion zone mixes is mixing at a low level (as one should) but then failing to check it at higher levels where issues like treble fatigue may be much more severe. BTW Chris, the sharp dropoff from 17K is very likely a result of conversion to mp3, which reduces file size primarily by cutting off mostly inaudible frequencies. Very, very few people older than a newborn baby can hear much above 17 and it's debatable even then that anyone (even babies) can really actively hear up to 19, where sound is more subliminally sensed than really heard, so I'd be careful what you believe you're hearing, and check the bandwidth on the sine wave you're sweeping. MP3 conversion has audible effects, but that's for another discussion.
In many ways I still enjoy this mix, though. The energy from the drums is a strength, and a reduction in compression overall would make much of the harshness disappear. When mixing at low levels for long periods of time, it's tempting to over compress and leave things too bright because atmospheric sounds (A/C, electrical hum, weather outside) tend to make the things we like to hear at those levels.. well.. harder to hear.
At any rate, this is good discussion, and I'm sorry again that I let my brain cooties get the better of me on the board.
so I apologize sincerely for that. Wasn't really fair of me to hijack the thread like that either, so sincere apologies to Bob, too. My main gripe is that it's not really fair to jump to the "hearing loss" conclusion not knowing one's listening environment/history, but I definitely overreacted. You're right to suggest I provide some of my perspective on this.Having gotten some distance from this one and checking the mix on a few different listening systems, I have a little more perspective on where this gets potentially fatiguing. For me personally, as a biased guitarist, string noise, pick noise, and finger noise are an important part of the intimacy of a performance. However, there is a good deal of compression going on here, which is exacerbating the problem with the high frequency energy, bring the relative level of those details quite a bit higher, which can be a bit harsh (especially the fingers sliding on the coiled lower strings). You also mentioned on my post that it'd be tempting for me to listen to the part with the way it would sound to me when I was playing it... also a very good observation.
Now Chris93 has a good point here as well... listening level is important. A mistake we make all too often on discussion zone mixes is mixing at a low level (as one should) but then failing to check it at higher levels where issues like treble fatigue may be much more severe. BTW Chris, the sharp dropoff from 17K is very likely a result of conversion to mp3, which reduces file size primarily by cutting off mostly inaudible frequencies. Very, very few people older than a newborn baby can hear much above 17 and it's debatable even then that anyone (even babies) can really actively hear up to 19, where sound is more subliminally sensed than really heard, so I'd be careful what you believe you're hearing, and check the bandwidth on the sine wave you're sweeping. MP3 conversion has audible effects, but that's for another discussion.
In many ways I still enjoy this mix, though. The energy from the drums is a strength, and a reduction in compression overall would make much of the harshness disappear. When mixing at low levels for long periods of time, it's tempting to over compress and leave things too bright because atmospheric sounds (A/C, electrical hum, weather outside) tend to make the things we like to hear at those levels.. well.. harder to hear.
At any rate, this is good discussion, and I'm sorry again that I let my brain cooties get the better of me on the board.
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!