01-03-2016, 09:56 AM
so, i've gone for depth and space and had a play around with placement between the men and women. i took The Cliff Adam's Singers as my main reference regarding space and timbre; they used to be on the radio for a half hour slot after the top 20 charts in the UK on a Sunday evening for decades. much of it was rather sickly for my taste, but occasionally they'd throw out a number which appealed to my wild and diverse nature.
while they were mainly men, with only 3 to 4 women and had an accordion in accompaniment (not a fan of the instrument, sadly), the reference does give a feeling of space, especially regarding placement of the accordion in relation to the singers and the listener. i suspect they used a ribbon....and i've tended to lean a little towards a warmer presentation than was evident in the tracking from the condenser mikes.
i've asked a question about the multi concerning the room size, because there's a clear sonic signature in the recordings which is contrary to the larger illusion of space i was after in my mix. that signature haunted me somewhat, and it can be ambiguous to the listener if one ambiance is mixed in with another, even distracting, though perhaps more at a subconscious level for those not familiar with critical listening. i chose to avoid reverbs which gave early reflections, in an effort to minimise conflicts. there's some proximity messages in the mikes with spectral build up in the low-mids, thankfully it wasn't too difficult to EQ without having to resort to fistfuls of adjustment - that makes a refreshing change in this forum!!
one major irritation from my perspective as a listener, was the final 't' on entertainment. because of the nature of the recording, the singers don't end at the same time. indeed, the Altos didn't finish at the same time as the Sopranos either (it was fixable), but those teeees were such a shame. i managed to lessen the problem, but it couldn't be fixed in the mix in it's entirety (unless there's a genius out there who knows.....then please share the trick!!) - the problem was the main stereo track which i had to keep running at the end; the individual mike tracks could be fixed with some tweaking.
because we had the benefit of the overdubs and a stereo track, i had a go at exploiting it. the stereo track added depth and additional density to the voices, but during the men's and womens' solos, i muted it which gave me a clear left and right channel placement which the stereo track tended to 'confuse' (but as i said, was great for density).
i kept the piano mono simply because the lower register would hang on one side of headphones (depending on approach)....but i mixed it with some width. the mono presentation also assisted in the illusion of depth. i noticed the pianist was right-hand biased, with the lower register notes not as prevalent as they should have been in the tracking, though it's an easy fix. i loved the energy and obvious enthusiasm of the musician....came across in super bundles.
i am crucially concerned with the depth perspective between the piano and the singers, and relative to the listener. this depth-thing does depend on the playback device....smaller devices tend to offer more depth....larger less so because of the treble content from the 'instruments' themselves (the direct sound) compared with the treble in the reverb. tweeter design/quality is a big factor too; an interesting theme. any comments? if you post, it would be handy knowing your monitoring situation.
the multi made a refreshing change to the general over-compressed, distorted, sibilant, pitch-corrected, printed automation-type material easily found in the library, and brought with it some interesting challenges of the good sort. Amen to that!
nice one Mange, thanks for it's availability and for sharing your work. do please pass on our gratitude to the musicians and especially the conductor.
while they were mainly men, with only 3 to 4 women and had an accordion in accompaniment (not a fan of the instrument, sadly), the reference does give a feeling of space, especially regarding placement of the accordion in relation to the singers and the listener. i suspect they used a ribbon....and i've tended to lean a little towards a warmer presentation than was evident in the tracking from the condenser mikes.
i've asked a question about the multi concerning the room size, because there's a clear sonic signature in the recordings which is contrary to the larger illusion of space i was after in my mix. that signature haunted me somewhat, and it can be ambiguous to the listener if one ambiance is mixed in with another, even distracting, though perhaps more at a subconscious level for those not familiar with critical listening. i chose to avoid reverbs which gave early reflections, in an effort to minimise conflicts. there's some proximity messages in the mikes with spectral build up in the low-mids, thankfully it wasn't too difficult to EQ without having to resort to fistfuls of adjustment - that makes a refreshing change in this forum!!
one major irritation from my perspective as a listener, was the final 't' on entertainment. because of the nature of the recording, the singers don't end at the same time. indeed, the Altos didn't finish at the same time as the Sopranos either (it was fixable), but those teeees were such a shame. i managed to lessen the problem, but it couldn't be fixed in the mix in it's entirety (unless there's a genius out there who knows.....then please share the trick!!) - the problem was the main stereo track which i had to keep running at the end; the individual mike tracks could be fixed with some tweaking.
because we had the benefit of the overdubs and a stereo track, i had a go at exploiting it. the stereo track added depth and additional density to the voices, but during the men's and womens' solos, i muted it which gave me a clear left and right channel placement which the stereo track tended to 'confuse' (but as i said, was great for density).
i kept the piano mono simply because the lower register would hang on one side of headphones (depending on approach)....but i mixed it with some width. the mono presentation also assisted in the illusion of depth. i noticed the pianist was right-hand biased, with the lower register notes not as prevalent as they should have been in the tracking, though it's an easy fix. i loved the energy and obvious enthusiasm of the musician....came across in super bundles.
i am crucially concerned with the depth perspective between the piano and the singers, and relative to the listener. this depth-thing does depend on the playback device....smaller devices tend to offer more depth....larger less so because of the treble content from the 'instruments' themselves (the direct sound) compared with the treble in the reverb. tweeter design/quality is a big factor too; an interesting theme. any comments? if you post, it would be handy knowing your monitoring situation.
the multi made a refreshing change to the general over-compressed, distorted, sibilant, pitch-corrected, printed automation-type material easily found in the library, and brought with it some interesting challenges of the good sort. Amen to that!
nice one Mange, thanks for it's availability and for sharing your work. do please pass on our gratitude to the musicians and especially the conductor.
Beware...........Cognitive Dissonance!